Making another British IPA

[Tony1951]

Advice needed on my planned Ahtanum APA.....

Further to the above comment, I'd like opinions on how I should use the 100g of Ahtanum kindly sent by Stevej383.

I've bee reading the other thread about mash length and I'm planning to reduce the abv of my beers to sensible levels while keeping the big beer mouth feel. This is what I'm thinking:

Mash:

5kg Weyermanns Pale Ale Malt
150g crystal malt.

Mash for 30 minutes @ 68C.

Ferment with US05. (because I have it and it suits APA, I think).

Hopefully this will convert but lead to a higher FG beer - maybe about 1018....
If I hit those numbers the beer should come in at about 5.5%abv. I've been getting 1059OG from that malt bill with a 65 minute mash, so since most conversion seems to happen in the first half hour, I might get those numbers.


Hopping:

32g Magnum @ 60

15g Citra @ 10
15g Centennial @ 10

Flame out and cool to 80C - then 80g Ahtanum steeped for 30 minutes and then cooled to 20C.

How does that seem?

[Notlaw]

The description of Ahtanum on this thread has sold it for me..!!

"...not one of the bigger American hops.... like a more mellow Cascade..."

SOLD.! I'll have me some of that.

[Tony1951]

The description of Ahtanum on this thread has sold it for me..!!

"...not one of the bigger American hops.... like a more mellow Cascade..."

SOLD.! I'll have me some of that.

It smells pretty damned good in its packet.

[Clibit]

Tony - you're low on hops but that's probably how you want it - not over-powering. I think it should work fine.

I can't really predict how your mash will affect things, and I'm wondering whether keeping the mash time to 45 mins or more but using a mash temp around 68-69 might achieve what you want. Probably not, I'm really not sure, but I have had FGs of 1015 and 1020 with the two mashes I've done at 68C for 30 mins. Your simple grain bill should ferment pretty well. Some Carapils would help keep the FG higher. One of my two beers had Carapils 5% and crystal 5%, the other had Munich 10%, crystal 5%, biscuit 5%.

If you do get an FG of 1018ish it means a fair amount of sweetness compared to 1010 so I would want to increase the IBUs to compensate.

[Tony1951]

Tony - you're low on hops but that's probably how you want it - not over-powering. I think it should work fine.

I can't really predict how your mash will affect things, and I'm wondering whether keeping the mash time to 45 mins or more but using a mash temp around 68-69 might achieve what you want. Probably not, I'm really not sure, but I have had FGs of 1015 and 1020 with the two mashes I've done at 68C for 30 mins. Your simple grain bill should ferment pretty well. Some Carapils would help keep the FG higher. One of my two beers had Carapils 5% and crystal 5%, the other had Munich 10%, crystal 5%, biscuit 5%.

If you do get an FG of 1018ish it means a fair amount of sweetness compared to 1010 so I would want to increase the IBUs to compensate.

Thanks for your thoughts Clibit.

With magnum and citra pellets, which is what I have, and the last of my centennial leaf (15g) which is all I have, the IBU should be around 66 on my Brewer's Friend online calculator. I've been using that kind of profile for APA for a few brews and have liked it. My intention was to try and create more unfermentable malto-dextrins from the pale malt by doing the short 'hot' mash. That way I get the body from the pale malt rather than adding an unfermentable adjunct like carapils. Have I got that right, or am I missing something Clibit?

This is an ambitious experiment for me, but I've definitely had high final gravity by doing mashes on the hot side (69C). The short mash, according to that other thread might lead to less time for the beta-amylase (already out of its comfort zone at 68C) to slowly chop up the larger sugar molecules.

[Clibit]

Yes you've got it right. I wasn't very clear sorry. People use high mash temps to reduce fermentability and raise the FG. It seems to be a pretty reliable way to do that.

I suspect mash duration is less predictable and reliable as a way of targeting a FG. I've only done a couple of short mashes (35 mins or less) or so, so I can't guarantee anything.The mash duration thing is something you can experiment with, but there's probably a reason why it's not generally discussed as an option - like unpredictability?

The chap I linked to on the attenuation thread got widely varying attenuation rates from short mashes. He decided to mash for 40 minutes in future because that provided as predictable an outcome from the fermentation as longer mashes did. Less than 40 mins created very unpredictable results. It was just one brewer though, doing a series of mashes. Not gospel.

For the time being I am going to mash for 45 mins and use mash temp and grains to manipulate fermentability - but I'm interested in anybody's experiments, and I keep tabs of my own variations and outcomes. And I may well try short mashes again in the future, for low ABV beers.

[Tony1951]

OK Clibit - I've got that. Well, I might just try a 45 minute mash then and try hard to measure water volume, initial grain temperature and grain weight to get the strike temperature of the initial water to the right temperature. I'm not sure if those strike temp calculators online allow for vessel initial warm up.... If they do, it won't work well for my boiler/mash tun because it is already at whatever the strike temperature is. I think I've been getting better at that juggling act of late though so I will probably be able to hit my desired mash temp.

I might do it on Wednesday so I will let it be known how it goes on.

[Clibit]

Well your aim is to reduce ABV and retain big beer mouthfeel. You can certainly be sure that a high mash temp and adding some grains like carapils will positively contribute to that. I've seen brews that have quite a high munich malt % to help achieve that too.

But I think you should get good mouthfeel with an OG above 1050 and a high mash temp. And doing a 30 minute mash won't raise attenuation, it will either reduce it or, at worst, leave it the same as a longer mash. So no harm in trying.

I like the occasional trip around the houses...

[Tony1951]

Ahtanum APA brew day today. Just got to do a few things and then we get going...... He he he . I still have a sense of excitement about getting things going. I'm toying with the decision about whether to reduce the grain to 5kg or 4.5kg. I have much more than enough 7.7 - 7.8% beer about 50 - 55 half litre bottles. I can be sure that 4.5kg of grain rather than 5, will reduce the abv, whereas if I use 5kg and a short hot mash I MIGHT reduce it, but I might not........ I have an hour and a half to decide.

[Rookie]

OK Clibit - I've got that. Well, I might just try a 45 minute mash.

I went to a 45 minute mash (and boil) for most of my beers several years ago and don't see any difference in the results.

[Tony1951]

OK Clibit - I've got that. Well, I might just try a 45 minute mash.

I went to a 45 minute mash (and boil) for most of my beers several years ago and don't see any difference in the results.

OKAY - I'm hoping to find the same.

My initial impression is that I got a slightly lower rate of conversion, 75% rather than the 82% I've been getting in the last four brews with a method identical to this one except the shorter mash. That's OK though. I've got enough sugars.


My schedule was:

23 litre brew volume
4.5KG Belgian Pale Malt
152grammes of crystal

Mash start temperature 68C
Mash final temperature at run off 67C

32grames Magnum @60
15grammes Citra @10
15grammes Centennial @10
80grammes Ahtanum @0 cooled to 75C and steeped for 30 minutes at 75 - 70C then cooled to 22C and run off to FV.

OG 1048

Pitched rehydrated US05 at 20.00hrs 6th April. No activity yet but some clumping of yeast in the middle of the FV. T-14hrs.