November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
- bosium
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November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
November Rain - Bohemian Pilsener
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
IBU: 41.5 (Tinseth Formula)
SRM: 4.5
82% Weyermann Extra Pale Pilsener Malt
7.3% Munich Malt
6.7% CaraPils
2% Melanoidin Malt
2% Flaked Barley
18 IBU - Czech Saaz - 100Mins First Wort Hopped
6.6 IBU - Czech Saaz - 70Mins
5.5 IBU - East Kent Goldings* - 65 Mins
7.0 IBU - Czech Saaz - 30 Mins
4.5 IBU - Czech Saaz - 15 Mins
0 IBU - Czech Saaz - 30g added at flame-out (3.3% AA)
Mash for 70 minutes at 154 deg F, mash-out by means of kettle denaturing.
Whirlfloc tabled added at 10 mins left of boil.
Wyeast 2001 - Pilsener Urquell - big starter.
Hi all,
So, this weekend I had a crack at a pilsener, a recipe I've been working on for some time. I started by reading the section on pilseners in Designing Great Beers, Radical Brewing and Brewing Classic Styles, and listening to the Jamil podcast on Bohemian Pilseners. I decided to forgo the decoction mash and have instead boosted the maltiness by additions of Melanoidin and Munich as per Aleman's recommendations. Foam retention is boosted by CaraPils, and a 2% addition of flaked barley. If I'd had more CaraPils, I probably would have skipped the flaked barley but hopefully the small amount won't cause me any haze problems. Either way this beer should have a great head on it, which is how I like my beers. I actually ended up with 84% efficiency on this one, single infusion, single batch sparge. I always seem to get unprecedented high efficiencies when I use Weyermann extra pale pilsener malt. I usually get about 78% efficiency on my system.
I had two different strength packets of Saaz hops, one that has been in the freezer for some months at 5.1% AA originally, and some fresher 3.3% stuff, both from HopShop. *I had such unexpectedly high efficiency that I had to use 10g of 6.8% AA EKGs as well just to get the bitterness back up to where I wanted it, as I ended up with more beer than I had anticipated. Hopefully it shouldn't affect the flavour much. If I brew this again, I'll use all Saaz as originally intended and skip this addition. I always use whole flower hops as I use a modified bruheat boiler which tends to be defeated by hop pellets. I also like the way they work with the hopstopper to keep a lot of the break out of the FV - although having said that, this time I had quite a lot of break come through as I didn't really let it settle long enough before draining the boiler. I had to add 2L of water to the kettle during the boil to keep the level where I wanted it. I ended up with 26L of wort post-boil. 22L in my fermenter, 1L in my fast-ferment test, 2x 1L bottles frozen for making starters with and 1L lost to trub.
I used the Pilsener Urquell strain - Wyeast 2001. I actually ordered the Budvar strain, but H&G sent me this one. No matter though, I'm sure 2001 will be perfect. I made a 2L starter, then stepped it up by another 2L a few days later, then decanted the spent beer and added a new 4L of fresh wort a fews days after that. There was quite a bit of slurry, although I didn't measure it, but it must have been several hundred ml's. I held a small amount back to use for a fast-ferment test, so that I can get some sort of idea of my limit of attenuation. I pitched cold at 6 degrees C, set the fermentation temp to 7degC, and 12 hours later (i.e. this morning), stepped it up to 8. I will increment the temperature by about a degree every 12 hours until it reaches 10degrees, which I will hold it at until fermentation completes. I am not planning to do a diacetyl rest with this beer, I should have very little thanks to the cold pitching technique, and a small amount is actually present in Pilsener Urquell anyway.
For water, I used store-bought Tesco Ashbeck Mountain Spring water, as it is nice and soft. I have had problems before with high mash pH's due to pale malts and alkaline water and I was taking no chances this time. Also, I wanted the softer water profile as it is typical of a Czech Pils. Again, with a bit of research, prompted by my previous problems and some advice from Aleman, I made some salt additions to change the profile slightly - to boost Calcium levels and to reduce Residual Alkalinity. I used Calcium Chloride mainly, with a very small Gypsum addition to try and keep the Sulphate / Chloride ratio slightly more balanced. I used Palmer's mash spreadsheet to work out the figures. I managed to get around pH 5.3 in the mash.
Ashbeck Water:
Bicarbonate (Alkalinity) - 25ppm
Calcium - 10ppm
Magnesium - 2.5ppm
Sodium - 9ppm
Chloride - 12ppm
Sulphate - 10ppm
After additions:
Bicarbonate (Alkalinity) - 16.4ppm
Calcium - 76ppm
Magnesium - 2.5ppm
Sodium - 9ppm
Chloride - 109ppm
Sulphate - 38ppm
Pics to follow.
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
IBU: 41.5 (Tinseth Formula)
SRM: 4.5
82% Weyermann Extra Pale Pilsener Malt
7.3% Munich Malt
6.7% CaraPils
2% Melanoidin Malt
2% Flaked Barley
18 IBU - Czech Saaz - 100Mins First Wort Hopped
6.6 IBU - Czech Saaz - 70Mins
5.5 IBU - East Kent Goldings* - 65 Mins
7.0 IBU - Czech Saaz - 30 Mins
4.5 IBU - Czech Saaz - 15 Mins
0 IBU - Czech Saaz - 30g added at flame-out (3.3% AA)
Mash for 70 minutes at 154 deg F, mash-out by means of kettle denaturing.
Whirlfloc tabled added at 10 mins left of boil.
Wyeast 2001 - Pilsener Urquell - big starter.
Hi all,
So, this weekend I had a crack at a pilsener, a recipe I've been working on for some time. I started by reading the section on pilseners in Designing Great Beers, Radical Brewing and Brewing Classic Styles, and listening to the Jamil podcast on Bohemian Pilseners. I decided to forgo the decoction mash and have instead boosted the maltiness by additions of Melanoidin and Munich as per Aleman's recommendations. Foam retention is boosted by CaraPils, and a 2% addition of flaked barley. If I'd had more CaraPils, I probably would have skipped the flaked barley but hopefully the small amount won't cause me any haze problems. Either way this beer should have a great head on it, which is how I like my beers. I actually ended up with 84% efficiency on this one, single infusion, single batch sparge. I always seem to get unprecedented high efficiencies when I use Weyermann extra pale pilsener malt. I usually get about 78% efficiency on my system.
I had two different strength packets of Saaz hops, one that has been in the freezer for some months at 5.1% AA originally, and some fresher 3.3% stuff, both from HopShop. *I had such unexpectedly high efficiency that I had to use 10g of 6.8% AA EKGs as well just to get the bitterness back up to where I wanted it, as I ended up with more beer than I had anticipated. Hopefully it shouldn't affect the flavour much. If I brew this again, I'll use all Saaz as originally intended and skip this addition. I always use whole flower hops as I use a modified bruheat boiler which tends to be defeated by hop pellets. I also like the way they work with the hopstopper to keep a lot of the break out of the FV - although having said that, this time I had quite a lot of break come through as I didn't really let it settle long enough before draining the boiler. I had to add 2L of water to the kettle during the boil to keep the level where I wanted it. I ended up with 26L of wort post-boil. 22L in my fermenter, 1L in my fast-ferment test, 2x 1L bottles frozen for making starters with and 1L lost to trub.
I used the Pilsener Urquell strain - Wyeast 2001. I actually ordered the Budvar strain, but H&G sent me this one. No matter though, I'm sure 2001 will be perfect. I made a 2L starter, then stepped it up by another 2L a few days later, then decanted the spent beer and added a new 4L of fresh wort a fews days after that. There was quite a bit of slurry, although I didn't measure it, but it must have been several hundred ml's. I held a small amount back to use for a fast-ferment test, so that I can get some sort of idea of my limit of attenuation. I pitched cold at 6 degrees C, set the fermentation temp to 7degC, and 12 hours later (i.e. this morning), stepped it up to 8. I will increment the temperature by about a degree every 12 hours until it reaches 10degrees, which I will hold it at until fermentation completes. I am not planning to do a diacetyl rest with this beer, I should have very little thanks to the cold pitching technique, and a small amount is actually present in Pilsener Urquell anyway.
For water, I used store-bought Tesco Ashbeck Mountain Spring water, as it is nice and soft. I have had problems before with high mash pH's due to pale malts and alkaline water and I was taking no chances this time. Also, I wanted the softer water profile as it is typical of a Czech Pils. Again, with a bit of research, prompted by my previous problems and some advice from Aleman, I made some salt additions to change the profile slightly - to boost Calcium levels and to reduce Residual Alkalinity. I used Calcium Chloride mainly, with a very small Gypsum addition to try and keep the Sulphate / Chloride ratio slightly more balanced. I used Palmer's mash spreadsheet to work out the figures. I managed to get around pH 5.3 in the mash.
Ashbeck Water:
Bicarbonate (Alkalinity) - 25ppm
Calcium - 10ppm
Magnesium - 2.5ppm
Sodium - 9ppm
Chloride - 12ppm
Sulphate - 10ppm
After additions:
Bicarbonate (Alkalinity) - 16.4ppm
Calcium - 76ppm
Magnesium - 2.5ppm
Sodium - 9ppm
Chloride - 109ppm
Sulphate - 38ppm
Pics to follow.
Last edited by bosium on Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
You've done your homework alright, sounds like it went like clockwork too. Next time I get some FV space, next week hopefully, a Czech pils is going in.
90% of the quality comes from just getting the yeast pitch right, and managing the fermentation appropriately. Sounds like you put the right amount of energy into that instead of stressing about a decoction mash.
90% of the quality comes from just getting the yeast pitch right, and managing the fermentation appropriately. Sounds like you put the right amount of energy into that instead of stressing about a decoction mash.
- bosium
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- Posts: 732
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:10 am
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Ingredients:

Weighing out grist:

Adding strike water:

Mash temp and pH:


Vorlauf:

First runnings and FW hops:

Mash-out of first runnings by temperature de-naturing on stove-top:

Draining second runnings:

FW hops stewing in the boiler as it comes up to temperature:


One of the many hop addition:

Boil:

My newly-built masive immersion chiller in action:


Cold pitching:

OG 1.054:

Wort in FV, in fermentation chamber at 7 degrees C:

Massive amount of hops left after boil. I squeeze the wort from the leftover hops and break, then strain through a sieve and paper towl. I usually get 2-3L of extra wort this way, which I can freeze and use for starters or krausening.

Spent grain. I give this to a mate at work who has a pig, who apparently goes crazy for it once it's a few days old and festering with whatever bacteria has colonised it. Occasionally I get some eggs in return for the grain and some homebrew.

Weighing out grist:
Adding strike water:
Mash temp and pH:
Vorlauf:
First runnings and FW hops:
Mash-out of first runnings by temperature de-naturing on stove-top:
Draining second runnings:
FW hops stewing in the boiler as it comes up to temperature:
One of the many hop addition:
Boil:
My newly-built masive immersion chiller in action:
Cold pitching:
OG 1.054:
Wort in FV, in fermentation chamber at 7 degrees C:
Massive amount of hops left after boil. I squeeze the wort from the leftover hops and break, then strain through a sieve and paper towl. I usually get 2-3L of extra wort this way, which I can freeze and use for starters or krausening.
Spent grain. I give this to a mate at work who has a pig, who apparently goes crazy for it once it's a few days old and festering with whatever bacteria has colonised it. Occasionally I get some eggs in return for the grain and some homebrew.
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Wow - what a nice looking and well researched brewday! I'll be interested to see how this one comes out...
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Quick update:
At just under seven days from pitching, the beer is still fermenting away happily in the FV at 10.C. Marvellous yeast this, I was already seeing activity after 12 hours at 7 degrees C, although it does smell a bit like rotten eggs.
My fast ferment test finished pretty quickly at room temperature, I took a gravity reading today and it's at 1.010! That equals about 5.7% ABV, which is much drier than I was shooting for, but I guess the bulk of the beer will probably finish with a slightly higher FG (I hope!). Still, next time I'll mash warmer, maybe 156 or so.
At just under seven days from pitching, the beer is still fermenting away happily in the FV at 10.C. Marvellous yeast this, I was already seeing activity after 12 hours at 7 degrees C, although it does smell a bit like rotten eggs.
My fast ferment test finished pretty quickly at room temperature, I took a gravity reading today and it's at 1.010! That equals about 5.7% ABV, which is much drier than I was shooting for, but I guess the bulk of the beer will probably finish with a slightly higher FG (I hope!). Still, next time I'll mash warmer, maybe 156 or so.
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Well it's been in the primary for 3 and a bit weeks now, and it's clearing nicely. It is still a bit hazy, but it is from fairly large particles of break meterial which I did a terrible job of keeping out of the FV. Will have to do better next time, maybe rack from the boiler using a racking cane with a hop bag on the end or something. I've been dropping it by about 1C every 12 hours or so, it's at 4C now. I'll let it get to -1 and then keg it on Saturday (shortened dip tube) when I can start my lagering process.
My only problem now is that I want to ferment lager #2 now in the same fridge. What I thought I might do is wrap the FV in a fermwrap heater set on full blast and some bubbleweap insulation and then put the whole lot in the fridge next to the keg of pils. Then the fridge will regulate that lot down to 9C, and theoretically the rest of the fridge should be kept somewhere around 0-4C if I've estimated correctly. In a few weeks time I'll keg lager #2 and they can both lager together.
It's times like these when I *really* wish I had a spare bar fridge to lager in..
My only problem now is that I want to ferment lager #2 now in the same fridge. What I thought I might do is wrap the FV in a fermwrap heater set on full blast and some bubbleweap insulation and then put the whole lot in the fridge next to the keg of pils. Then the fridge will regulate that lot down to 9C, and theoretically the rest of the fridge should be kept somewhere around 0-4C if I've estimated correctly. In a few weeks time I'll keg lager #2 and they can both lager together.
It's times like these when I *really* wish I had a spare bar fridge to lager in..
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Looks like it's going well. Do you recirculate the chilled wort into the boiler before running into the FV? This can filter out the break material to quite a high degree especially in a hoppy beer like this. It's really not that important though.
The plan with the fermwrap heater sounds fine ... what's lager number 2?
I acquired my second lager fridge a few weeks ago, I got both of mine FREE
The plan with the fermwrap heater sounds fine ... what's lager number 2?
I acquired my second lager fridge a few weeks ago, I got both of mine FREE

- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Well I did a few times with a jug, but it didn't really work (at all). I really need a march pump, I just wish they weren't so damn expensive or I'd have bought one already. I also think that I have an issue with my hop strainer, it just doesn't work so well anymore ever since I swapped my boiler tap out for one of the big orange H&G ones. I need to have a proper look at it and see if I can fix it, it worked really well for my pale ale, hardly any break in that one.
Lager #2 is a Sam Adams boston lager clone - mainly Pils and C60, with Tett and Mittelfruh. I'm still working on the hop schedule, I emailed Boston Brewing Co but unfortunately had no reply. I'm also quite keen to see how Delboy's has come out.
I'd like to scour ebay / freecycle for another fridge, but swmbo will have a fit. I already get it in the neck for having so much brewing equip and general beer stuff around the house.
How's your cz pils coming along Mysterio?
Lager #2 is a Sam Adams boston lager clone - mainly Pils and C60, with Tett and Mittelfruh. I'm still working on the hop schedule, I emailed Boston Brewing Co but unfortunately had no reply. I'm also quite keen to see how Delboy's has come out.
I'd like to scour ebay / freecycle for another fridge, but swmbo will have a fit. I already get it in the neck for having so much brewing equip and general beer stuff around the house.
How's your cz pils coming along Mysterio?
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
It fermented in around 7 days, just giving it a diacetyl rest now. Can't say i'm immediately impressed with it, it has a similar background fruity ale flavour that I got from the first lager I used W 34/70 with. If this yeast is only suitable for re-pitching then I probably won't use it again and go back to the liquids. Then again it is a little early to tell, the beer is still full of yeast.
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Hmm, spoke to my brother about this, and being the skinflint that he is, he said that if he was me he wouldn't want to pay the extra in electricity to heat something which I'm paying to cool down in a fridge, which I'm paying to keep warm in my kitchen (follow me?).
He suggested the slightly lower-tech solution of just wrapping the keg up nicely in a duvet or something and stuffing it in
my shed at the bottom of the garden. I've got a wireless min/max thermometer, so I could put the sender in the bundle and
be able to monitor the temperature swing without having to leave the comfort of my house.
I wonder how well this would work, anyone tried this? I'd be most scared of the beer freezing if it got too cold, but
I guess the temperature swing might be an issue too. The temps from Sat onwards are looking in the 2-7C range.
This could probably use it's own thread..
He suggested the slightly lower-tech solution of just wrapping the keg up nicely in a duvet or something and stuffing it in
my shed at the bottom of the garden. I've got a wireless min/max thermometer, so I could put the sender in the bundle and
be able to monitor the temperature swing without having to leave the comfort of my house.
I wonder how well this would work, anyone tried this? I'd be most scared of the beer freezing if it got too cold, but
I guess the temperature swing might be an issue too. The temps from Sat onwards are looking in the 2-7C range.
This could probably use it's own thread..
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
The swings will mess it up big time, will you be putting the fermwrap on it outside as well as the duvet?
I'm all for saving money but be sensible about it, what's the marginal cost of keeping the FV going in your fridge. How many kWh. Is it worth the 10p you might save to potentially F up a whole batch of beer ?
EDIT, ok it's more like 70p to run it assuming it's running half of the time during two weeks paying 10p per kWh
I'm all for saving money but be sensible about it, what's the marginal cost of keeping the FV going in your fridge. How many kWh. Is it worth the 10p you might save to potentially F up a whole batch of beer ?
EDIT, ok it's more like 70p to run it assuming it's running half of the time during two weeks paying 10p per kWh
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
I was wondering about that, I'm not sure how badly the temp will swing. Might be worth filling a keg with water and putting a min / max thermometer on it to measure the swing as an experiment.
The benefit to me, more than anything, would be to free up space in the keggerator. I'm not too fussed about the cost of the electricity, it all pales into insignificance in comparison to running 2x 2.4kW elements in my boiler for example.
The benefit to me, more than anything, would be to free up space in the keggerator. I'm not too fussed about the cost of the electricity, it all pales into insignificance in comparison to running 2x 2.4kW elements in my boiler for example.
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Well I kegged this one on Sat afternoon after exactly 4 weeks in the primary. I chilled it down to 0 before kegging.
FG seems to be 1.012, a little drier than I was aiming for but still OK I guess.
I had a taste, it tastes pretty fruity tbh, quite ale-ey. I don't understand it, I used the right yeast, and I thought an adequate pitch and low fermentation temps. I was hoping for a really clean taste. Maybe I didn't aerate enough? I've never done a lager before so I don't know how much the lagering process will improve / change this beer, but I would have thought that it would be pretty drinkable after 4 weeks in the primary...
At least the beer is crystal clear. In fact the beer is just about crystal clear even at 0C, no chill haze that I can detect which is great news.
FG seems to be 1.012, a little drier than I was aiming for but still OK I guess.
I had a taste, it tastes pretty fruity tbh, quite ale-ey. I don't understand it, I used the right yeast, and I thought an adequate pitch and low fermentation temps. I was hoping for a really clean taste. Maybe I didn't aerate enough? I've never done a lager before so I don't know how much the lagering process will improve / change this beer, but I would have thought that it would be pretty drinkable after 4 weeks in the primary...
At least the beer is crystal clear. In fact the beer is just about crystal clear even at 0C, no chill haze that I can detect which is great news.
Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Couple of things spring to mind, you could just be tasting the freshness of the hops. Look at the amount of Saaz in the recipe. Green hop character could be described as fruity. To me, a lot of the hoppy lagers on the market taste quite ale-like! The hops should integrate with the beer over the next couple of weeks and the perception may change. I had a taste of my pilsner out of the primary and it is rather ale-like too. Not worried yet though.I had a taste, it tastes pretty fruity tbh, quite ale-ey.
It could also be acetaldehyde, but after 4 weeks in the primary it is almost certainly not.
If it is esters, then that's just part of your experience as a lager brewer, very few of us get it 100% right first time. Especially with czech pilsner which is acknowledged as one of the hardest styles to nail.
- bosium
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Re: November Rain - Czech Pilsener 14Nov2009
Hmm, I hear what you're saying. I had thought acetaldehyde first (green apples? I can't say I've ever drunk a beer and thought 'hmm, that tastes just like green apples') but I don't think it's likely, I'm pretty sure I let it ferment out 100% in the primary.
Maybe you're right and it is just a green taste from the hops. I'll take another sample of it in a week or so when it's carbed up and see if it's any better - I'm lagering it on the gas.
Maybe you're right and it is just a green taste from the hops. I'll take another sample of it in a week or so when it's carbed up and see if it's any better - I'm lagering it on the gas.