AG #4 Vienna Lager -Rapid Wien - brewday & updates

[Manx Guy]

Hi,

Thanks so far to all those who have helped me out with my planned Vienna Lager brew.

Unfortunately due to the starter taking its time to get going (pitched on Thursday started feremtning midday Sat) I've put this brw day back from Mon 10.01 to Sun 16.01.

Anyway here is the recipe I've arrived at - its basicly a high% Vienna recipe with some addtions for colour and head/foam stability:

Est. OG 1051 Est. FG1012 Abv5.1%
Estimated batch size 21 Litres EBC 18

Vienna Malt 4kg 83.3%
Munich Malt 500g 10.4%
Caramalt 300g 6.3%

I am still trying to decide whether I should add some carafa II to bring the colour to 23 EBC - I'm looking for a dark gold/copper colour

Hops

Hallertau H 90 mins
Hallertau H 10mins

to EBU 27

I plan to do a 90 minute single infusion mash at 65.5-66.2C with my usual ratio of 2.5l/kg
I'll do my ghetto/hybrid fly sparge

Once the boil is complete and cooling has finished ( to about 15C) I will transfer to the FV and allow to cool to ~12-15C before pitching the slurry from my 3 litre Wyyeast bavarian lager starter

At present I'll be stepping this starter up from 600ml to 3 litres tomorrow (Monday). I may then add a further litre of fresh wort depending on how quick it ferements out the second batch. as I want time to allow time for the yeast to settle so I can decant off the starter wort before pitching.

Any comments? lets hear them!

Cheers!

Guy

[mysterio]

I would personally try and get the pitching/ ferment temp down to 10C if you can, it will be more lager-like. Remember you will need to chill the starter for at least a day (preferably longer) to be able to decant.

Oh by the way I am brewing a Vienna lager this week as well so we can compare notes. I am just going 100% vienna malt, hallertau + saaz and Bock yeast.

[Manx Guy]

Hi,

I should be able to cool the brew to about 10-12 in the boiler given enough time... Ambient temp at present is about 8-10C with the cooling water at 4C so should be ok...

I think I'l only do one 'step up' in that case... add 3 -3.5 litres fresh wort tomorrow and let that ferment out then chill it down for 24-48 hours so the yeast seperates from the starter wort...

Let me know how your brewday goes!

I did toy with a 100% vienna grain bill but thought I'd add a little munich for colour...

Plus I'll hopefully have a viable slurry ready for my Oktoberfest to get pitched onto - I've been thinking along the lines of a 50:50 Pils:munich grain bill for this with Tet only for hopping (to 28 IBU)
I may do a mash out decocotion or then again may not!


Cheers!

Guy

[Manx Guy]

Brewed this today and all went well...

Although I forgot to add the calcium chloride so efficency suffered otherwise all went well...
Also took a while to get the wort down to pitching temp. in the end I pitched the yeast (from my starter of wyeast Bavarian lager2206) at 12C

I got 20 litres into the FV at 1048 (three points short) so not a total disaster but hpe fully the beer wont be unbalanced because of it...

I think I lost a litre of final volume to the hops & trub(which was higher than normal)

Smells great and is a nice copper colour

How did oyur brew day go Mysterio?




Guy

[mysterio]

Great, sounds good matey

Brewday was smooth, I posted a thread with my recipe. An element cut out as I dunked the chiller in was the only hiccup. Not sure what happened there, might need to buy a new one.

One thing I noticed was the weyermann Vienna produced a much lighter, less malty wort than an all British Vienna wort.

[Manx Guy]

Hi, I took a look...

Your recipe looks good!

I think mine is on the edges of the style guidelines for bitterness....

There was about 115grams of flower hops so they casued quite abit of wort loss, however they formed a very effective filter...

Mine tirned out at spot on the colour I wanted a lovely reddish gold or light copper (depending on your point of view) which I was pleased with, asI understand colour estimation is quite difficult to get right

Interesting note you made about the Weyerman and British malts... I think my malt is British Vienna (got it from Brewzer)...
I wonder if the same is true with Weyerman and British Munich?

A taste of the wort is very promising, and my starter seems to have worked as there was a half inch dense foamy head on the brew this morning, so I dropped the temp from 12 C to 10C...

I will check on it in a week to gauge when I should do my diacetyl rest (which is key with the Bavarian yeast I'm using-according to wyeast)

I'm guessing raising the temp to 14-15C will be sufficient for a diacetyl rest?

Cheers!

Guy

[Manx Guy]

Quick update...

This seems to be feremnting well - current 'core' temp 11C (ambient 10C)

There is quite an impressive rocky head especially for a lager yeast, I'#ve only used S23 & W34/70 before and they had a thin layer of foam.

This is almost the sort of thing you'd expect to see on a ale

I took a look at the Wyeast website and it suggests a diacetyl rest 'after fermentation is complete' I thought these rests were done about 75% of the way through fermentation?

Any comments?

Guy

[leedsbrew]

nice one Guy! I usually raise the temp as fermentation is starting to die down, but not when it is totally down! I suppose your yeast are still going to be active, there is just no more fermentables for them to eat, of they have reached their attenuation limit! I'm sure someone else will be along with more knowledge!

[Manx Guy]

Hi,

Just a quick update on my Vienna Lager...

Now rasied the tempto 15C for Diacetyl rest... SG @ a corrected 1015 which is a bit later than I had intended to start the rest, but I guess the yeasties were keener than I gave them credit for...

Had a little taste of the sample and I get a hint of nice malt but the main taste is yeast with a bit of sulphur in th eback ground...
So far no esters or diacetyl.... (which I am taking as a positive)
There is definately a slight hint of noble hops on the nose but again this is mainly masked by yeast/sulphur

More updates as they follow....

I plan to lager this in a free Pressure barrell I have in my temp controlled fridge at 2C (+/-0.5C) for 10-14 days before bottling.
I read on another forum & in a book that Viennas dont benefit as much as other lagers from a long conditioning...
Does any one have any opinions on this?

Is it to do with the fact that it is one of th darker styles and therefore as long as it fairly bright a little haze wont really be noticed?
or am i barking up the worng tree?

Cheers!

Guy

[mysterio]

Yeah exactly, the darker the lager the less you need to lager it really because a bit of mouthfeel is expected in the style. In fact you can drink it pretty quickly after it's fermented if you want. Of course it will still improve with lagering. A delicate pilsner or helles though, you really need to lager it for a while or it won't taste right.

[Manx Guy]

Hi

Right thats a bit of good news, I dont seem to be far off the right track...

However my fridge controller seems to have died...

Checked the fuse and the wiring cant trace the fault... So I'm going to order a new one & hopefully it will be here fairly soon (Before I need to start lagering it) The ferment is fine in my cellar...


Cheers!

Guy

[leedsbrew]

Glad to hear it's going well guy!

[Manx Guy]

Just a quick update...

After 14 days in primary it hit a corrected FG of 1010 which was a little lower than expected...

On the taste its still yeasty but there is a good malt taste and a nice amount of hoppyness on the finish
the best bit (as far as I'm concerned - this is my first AG lager) there is no sign of any esteryness or aceteldehydes so I think I was about right on with my yeast pitch/temp/handling

Its was carefully transfered to a CO2 flushed PB for lagering at 1.8C on Monday night it took a while to chill down that far but is now sat there quite hapily and I just took a quick sample in a shot glass - its noticably clearer already and some of the yeastyness has gone... Its definately got a toasty malt taste to it and a spicey hop finish

So far so good... Hope to get my Oktoberfest on soon

Cheers

Guy

[leedsbrew]

Nice one matey! Going to be cracker I'm sure!

Funny you should mention Oktoberfest beer as I've been looking at recipes today. I got a tube of wlp920 old Bavarian lager yeast from rob and plan on using it for a Munich heavy Oktoberfest!

What type of recipes have you been lookog at matey?

LB

[mysterio]

Good stuff Guy, this is your first lager right? Tough one to nail and it looks like you got the core of it right, i.e. the fermentation.