New thinking

[Jon474]

Having been on a four day brewing course with Mr Porter I am now adopting the brewery approach when it comes to my domestic brewing.

Just put two brews into KKs.

Brewed one on Saturday, the second on Sunday.

Use enough yeast. At least 6m cells of yeast per ml of wort. I made a 2L starter of WLP002 and split it and then re-grew both "halves" in their own 2L starter.

Get the beer on the right amount of yeast as soon as possible.

Get it off the yeast as soon as possible.

Secondary fermentation is taking place in the cask. No priming sugar but I have put CO2 on the top.

I have monitored these two brews very carefully and as soon as SG dropped to 1.012 (for the first - OG 1.052) and 1.010 (for the second OG 1.042) I have taken them off the yeast and put them into a cask.

I am done with leaving beer in the FV for days and days and days.

They both taste pretty good now and in ten or so days time they should be properly clear and ready to drink.

Loving it.

Jon.

[Hogarth]

Hmmm ... if your beers taste good then that's fine, but I'd have left them on the yeast for a few days, especially if you're using WLP002. It chucks out a massive amount of diacetyl which it then has to re-absorb. I once made a London Pride clone with this yeast, racked it off too early, and the beer tasted like butter. Maybe I was just unlucky, mind you. Let us know how your brews turn out.

[Jon474]

We'll see. It's an experiment.

White Labs do have a published total diacetyl number of 180ppb or 0.18ppm for this yeast. Typical range in beer is given as 0.01-0.6ppm so it's in the lower third. Threshold for taste is 0.08ppm. What the data doesn't make clear is whether those numbers are "in normal use" or specifically allow for a diacetyl rest.

Both batches did rest for 12-18 hours at close to FG before racking into the casks and the beer into the cask tastes okay. It tastes good actually. Looks nice too - WLP002 does clear well.

Time will tell.

Kind regards
Jon

[Barley Water]

I agree, if you pull the beer off the yeast too quickly when using the Fuller's yeast, you run the risk of buttered popcorn beer, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I just love this strain however, in fact, I am using it right now. I did an Irish Stout, will do an Irish Red this weekend (and yeah, I'm a little late this year but what the hell) and maybe a bitter before I start doing lagers again. I like to use it when I want a little less attenuation, that classic British flavor and frankly just a touch of diacetyl as well (it goes great with the caramel crystal malt flavor). In a commercial environment, tying up equipment costs money, in my brewery, not so much. Unless I am out of beer, I take my time and strive to keep most of my kegs full. The whole trick is to have your next batch fermenting at the time you tap the keg on the previous batch, it's all about the delicate balance of production and consumption.

[trucker5774]

Jon, just to save you experimenting with your "new thinking" Have a look at this. I do most of my brews this way viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33931&hilit=trucke ... h%E2%80%A6

[Jon474]

Thinking about this...I am still performing a diacetyl rest.

I have removed the beer from the most part of the original primary fermentation yeast but there is still a lot of yeast in suspension. The beer is far from clear.

I am not chilling the beer...it is being held at its normal fermentation temperature of c20C. I will hold it here for the next two days. Then I will move it to the chiller.

The yeast remaining in the cask will deal with the diacetyl that has not been mopped up at the end of fermentation and will do so much more quickly because it is still being held at at 20C. The residual yeast will also immediately absorb any O2 that has crept in on transfer from the primary. It should be fine.

The question remains...will this be sufficient for WLP002? WLP005,013 or 023 would have been fine without doubt - their total diacetyl levels are 25% of WLP002. Only time will tell.

Trucker has clearly had success with his approach. Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff.

I love brewing me.
Jon

I am just opposed to leaving beer sitting around, largely

[Jon474]

...that should have finished "...largely open to the elements".

[trucker5774]

I'm just opposed to leaving beer sitting around