Home Brew Forum

Hey everybody! I've been lurking around for a few months ever since this hometown friend of mine who goes by the name of "Seymour" (you may have heard of him) told me about the site. Anyways, I've been making wine for a couple of years now, and have finally made the jump into homebrewing. It is a beautiful day!

For my first noble attempt at homebrewing, I was inspired by the topic "13th - 16th Century Grainbills by Town (reference)" ~ viewtopic.php?t=57975 posted by Seymour. I decided to do something a little un-ordinary for my first brew, so I put something together containing 42% barley, 29% wheat, and 29% oats, using the reference as a rough guide. All hops used were graciously donated by Seymour and ABInbev. Recipe is for 4 U.S. Gallons. All measurements are sans metric, sorry.

Fermentables
%......lb...oz...type
42%...3...5.....Weyermann Munich Type I
29%...2...4.....Rolled Oats
13%...1...0.....Wheat, Bulgur
10%...0...12....Briess White Wheat Malt
6%.....0...8.....Red Winter Wheat

Hops
usage......time......oz.....type..............aa....ibu
first wort..60 min....¾....Cluster ~ leaf....6.0 » 14.7
first wort..60 min....¼....Hallertau ~ leaf..3.0 » 2.4
boil.........15 min....¾....Cluster ~ leaf....6.0 » 7.3
boil.........15 min....¼....Hallertau ~ leaf..3.0 » 1.2
post-boil...0 min.....1 ½..Hallertau ~ leaf..3.0 » 0.0

Danstar Nottingham Ale Yeast (primary)...1.065 to 1.012
Red Star Cote des Blancs (secondary)..1.012 to 1.005...OOPS!

Stats
Brewed 13/4/2013
25.6 IBU...5.6% ABV (7.0% actual)...1.056 OG...82% Measured Efficiency
1.25 qts/lb strike water
4+ hour multi-step mash. 60 min. boil.
Kettle chilled slowly in ice bath and by addition of 1 gallon pre-boiled refrigerator-temp water.

I guess my high efficiency - even with 48% unmalted grains - was a result of my extremely long, multi-step glucan/protein/amylase rests. Fortunately, the Munich and White Wheat Malt appeared to have enough diastatic power to pull off the 82% efficiency given enough time. I mashed in my 5 gal. anodized aluminum boil kettle on the stove, maintaining constant, even temperatures with occasional, gradual heating while stirring. I didn't quite plan on it taking THAT long to mash, but I took my time and gradually increased the temp of my 5 gal. kettle from 110-155 F. Sparged at 170 F through a metal-screen colander. Sticky mash not evident as a result of long glucan/protein rest and 170 F sparge water.

I know the beer isn't particularly "authentic" to any particular beer type, style, recipe, or era, but I wanted to experiment a bit while using what I had on hand/what I could get a hold of for cheap or free (thanks again for the hops Seymour!). Again, the goal was to try to create something vaguely similar to what a mildly hopped, 16th century, barley/wheat/oat beer might have tasted like. Yeah, there's no smoked malt, and it's not fermented in oak casks, but I figured that it must still taste something like a beer might have tasted a few hundred years ago. That's what I'm telling myself at least.

3 weeks in, the beer still looks pretty cloudy, which I'm not surprised by with the high amount of unmalted oats and wheat and the semi-fine grind (yeah, I grinded all of the grain, as carefully as possible, in an electric coffee grinder!). Sure, some of the husks got chopped to pieces, but only 42% of the grain even had husks on it, so I don't suspect tannins will be a major problem. I also forget to throw in the Irish Moss, and the post-boil cooldown period took about 40 minutes, so I assume that might be contributing to my haze as well. I couldn't care one way or the other though in this experimental brew...the haze seems appropriate. Had a great day, and boy did it turn into a FULL day.

I look forward to your comments, and I'll be sure to post some updates once things progress a little further. Cheers!

hey, this sounds great! i'm always curious as to what beer might have tasted like hundreds of years ago. i'd suggest that brewing to a style wasn't such a concern back in the 13th century, probably a bit of haze either, as opposed to just making beer, so i reckon you're probably right on for the "historic beer" style!

looking forward to the tasting notes
welcome to jim's!!

Cloudy or not...fine looking grain bill
Good luck and welcome
And this is your first brew!! Inspirational
Regards authenticity..who cares
Seymour still trying to make a beer for hobbits...haven't had the heart to tell him they ain't real!!!

Welcome onboard Tim.

Welcome on board!

That's a really interesting grainbill you have there. I am sure it will turn out to be really tasty.

I too was inspired by Seymour's post and brewed a small one gallon batch SEE HERE

The beer turned out really well - nice and clear and a lovely amber colour. Its quite fruity from the cascade and the golden naked oats that I used.


Cheers!

Jim

Welcome to the UK, Tim!

That is an awesome looking recipe, too. Nice work, old-timey hops and all. Your lengthy multi-step mash is certainly historically accurate, and you probably exceeded everyone's efficiency expectations, which is proof positive of a job well done. You're probably right about the haziness being a natural component of an old-fashioned farmhouse ale, taking into consideration all the husky, unmalted, protein-y grains, etc. It's not terribly cloudy, though, for such a young beer. I predict it will continue clearing over the coming weeks.

I'm thrilled to taste this, by the way. I'll gladly trade you some of my Seymour Flyer Best. Then you can be the 2nd American to ferment using smuggled Adnams dual-strain yeast. Heh, heh.

timothy wrote:...Sorry, I can't quite post images yet, so, you'll just have to hit up the links below if you want to take a gander at how the beer is looking 3 weeks in...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60759295@N07/8703301191/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60759295@N07/8704421830/

You're almost there, Tim. You've already done all the hard parts. When typing your message, click the "Full Editor" button below. Then highlight each image address, then click the "Img" button up above. That adds HTML codes which tell the browser to load the enclosed image from another host website...


Hey, you guys--all my new Jim's Beer Kit mates--this Tim guy is one to watch. He and I met at Master Naturalist classes. He's finishing a University degree in Conservation Biology, and is as passionate, knowledgeable, and imaginative about the natural environment as he is about making crazy delicious fruit wines. I drank about half a wine bottle of this semi-sweet, complex, elixer-of-the-gods stuff before he informed me it was like 16% alcohol or some shit! I had no idea, it was so smooth. I can't wait to see what kinda beers he churns out.

Omg another genius....scary

Perhaps he would be kind enough to post a few of those great wine recipes

timothy wrote:Hey everybody! I've been lurking around for a few months ever since this hometown friend of mine who goes by the name of "Seymour" (you may have heard of him) told me about the site.

Can't say I have, shy retiring sort of feller is he, keeps a low profile sort of guy?

jimp2003 wrote:I too was inspired by Seymour's post and brewed a small one gallon batch SEE HERE

Awesome! Our recipes are quite different. Interesting to see different interpretations of this style.

Seymour, I can't wait for us to have a tasting of this. A trade is definitely in line. Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to do with the other lb or so of hallertau you gave me! I guess make more beer. I've been fighting the urge to open the Mauri Weissbier you gave me so that I can harvest the Mauribrew Weiss yeast contained within at the appropriate time. Same goes for the Choco Sour. Are they delicious beers to be drank now, or yeast samples to be preserved for later? That is the question.

seymour wrote:You're almost there, Tim. You've already done all the hard parts. When typing your message, click the "Full Editor" button below. Then highlight each image address, then click the "Img" button up above. That adds HTML codes which tell the browser to load the enclosed image from another host website

Well, it looks like now that I have 5 posts under my belt I can actually access this feature. It's disabled otherwise I assume to prevent new user/bot spamming. Also, thanks for the accolades and well wishes. I've got some more wine for you as well. I recently bottled a blackberry-grape, cherry-grape, and white-grape peach. Plus, I've got some wild elderberries in the freezer still that will surely be tasty in something. I'm thinking of an elderberry port, or perhaps an elderberry sour ale of some sort? We'll have to see. Ok, going off topic. What was the topic again?

jonnyt wrote:Perhaps he would be kind enough to post a few of those great wine recipes

Maybe one of these days. Believe it our not, I use a lot of store-bought, prepressed and filtered 100% juice. It's easy, generally cheaper that buying the actual fruit (for example, pomegranates are not cheap, but I can buy the juice from 9 whole pomegranates - 1 Liter - for $3), and the fruit was pressed and preserved at the peak of freshness. That's my lazy two-cents at least. It tastes good to me!

Cheers everyone!

So, fermentation has been completely finished for about 3 weeks, then suddenly, the thing started fermenting again! The taste and aroma are still good, but the SG is now 1.005 and dropping! It appears some of my Cote des blanc wine yeast may have made it into my beer during racking 3 weeks ago when I transferred it to a carboy, and finally built up its population enough to do some damage. It's a lighter colored, cloudy wheat style beer anyways, so I actually don't think this is going to negatively affect it too much. Besides, the Nottingham did most of the heavy lifting already anyways. The wine yeast is just going to dry it out while adding a hint of flowery, fruity, or estery qualities. Should still be a good, light-bodied summer brew. More to come on how this turns out.

timothy wrote:[gravity] is now 1.005 and dropping!...

Woah! Further proof that non-barley, non-malted grains can be made VERY fermentable when combined with even a little barley malt and a long multi-step mash. So cool. This is going to be an extremely interesting historical grainwine!

Tasted last night at the guild meeting, thanks Timothy! It cracked open with a nice Champagne pop and poured a hazy golden colour with moderate white foam, short-lived head but it left-behind lots of fine Belgian lace. Strong aromas of husky grains, rising bread dough, noble hops (some signs of age/oxidation, but I bet that's true-to-style, similar to Belgian brewing practice to this day), slightly spicy yeast, harmonious hints of black pepper and clove. Great grainy flavours too, with a perfect balance of fruity, earthy hops, crisp not mushy, tart and refreshing. Light body but not thin or watery, somewhat spritzy carbonation but not as extreme as I expected, lingering bittersweet aftertaste which finally finished with a last noble hoppy snap. Complex but approachable, and deliciously "digestive." Smooth, no trace of the elevated alcohol percentage. I don't know if this is exactly what beer tasted like during the renaissance, but it's equivalent to a classic saison, which is one of my favourite styles especially this time of year. I can easily imagine this as a wilder, more expressive ancester of Pilsener. Very nicely done, mate! Best beer of the night, so much more interesting than all those Chico beers. If all your brews end up this good, look out world!

Be afraid....be very afraid!

Thanks Seymour! This definitely turned out like a nice saison farmhouse ale. Highly attenuated at 1.001 with an unintentionally elevated alcohol percentage (7.5%), although it is not noticeable. Nottingham in primary and Cote des Blancs in secondary, with a fermentation in the low to mid 70s °F created some Belgian-y characteristics utilizing this farmhouse-esque grainbill. Many of the results of this brew were a surprise or were altogether unintentional, but they all seemed to work together in creating a somewhat authentic saison. Rumor has it that saison yeast is a mutated form of wine yeast anyways, explaining why my accidental wine yeast addition may have actually benefited the saison-like qualities of this batch. I am still amazed by the fermentability of this wort. 99% attenuation using unmalted oats and wheat as 50% of the grainbill! Pics to follow once I bottle the entire batch. Don't be afraid to use unmalted grains...they WILL convert given the proper time and temperature.