Gales Best Bitter revival

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seymour
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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by seymour » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:20 pm

So, Otters, how's this drinking?

Otters

Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Otters » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Hi Seymour,

it's not quite ready but showing promise.

I think the unseasonal hot weather received on the South Coast of Blighty has made conditioning the beer hard work in the bottle. Some faint apple and the yeast is finding it hard to clear down properly> think I need a change from Safale s-04!

Never the less it's clearing slowly and I'm tasting a wonderful balance of hop bitterness and orange marmalade from the malt - all together a smooth drink a bit of a jeckle and hyde between a Yorkshire vs south counties pint.

Otters

Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Otters » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:45 pm

Hi Seymour,

it's not quite ready but showing promise.

I think the unseasonal hot weather received on the South Coast of Blighty has made conditioning the beer hard work in the bottle. Some faint apple and the yeast is finding it hard to clear down properly> think I need a change from Safale s-04!

Never the less it's clearing slowly and I'm tasting a wonderful balance of hop bitterness and orange marmalade from the malt - all together a smooth drink a bit of a jeckle and hyde between a Yorkshire vs south counties pint.
I forgot to mention:

It has a definite likeness to GBB! beautiful copper colour with some head retention and a melding of Challenger and Fuggles hops> not much aroma but the reward is flavour and finish> another month in bottle it will be on top form!

Rgds

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Eadweard » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm

Fullers do still use Gales yeast for the Gales beers, but they have adapted it to bottom fermenting in their cyclindro-conical fermenters.

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by seymour » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:55 am

Eadweard wrote:Fullers do still use Gales yeast for the Gales beers, but they have adapted it to bottom fermenting in their cyclindro-conical fermenters.
Aha! Thanks for sharing, that makes perfect sense.

athanisunset

Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by athanisunset » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:03 pm

Great to see that it is not just myself who misses Gales beers. I worked in the sales team for two years before the closure of the brewery and can confirm that the Gales Bitter being drunk around 2005 was a re-branded GB and very different to Butser Best Bitter. You may remember that the original GB was brewed to be served through a sparkler but being a beer of the south, few publicans in the free-trade opted for this. When the beer changed to just 'Gales' the brewery took the step to finish with the sparkler in the pubs and changed the recipe too. I recall that more residual sugar was in the beer to give a fuller mouth feel and the abv was dropped from 4.0% to 3.8% - what a great beer! The yeast type may have been a Whitbread strain but I'm not too sure about that. You would do well by speaking with Malcom Irving at Irving and Co brewery, he was the 2nd brewer at Gales at the time. Also it's a shame that Fullers havn't really kept the original recipes either. Seafarers Ale is different (it was origianly a re-badged Crowning Glory seasonal) Winter Brew was delicious as it was made with Prize Old and then blended with Butser. And as for the likes of Summer Breeze and Spring Sprinter, these were never made at Horndean and are a Fullers creation!

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by seymour » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:58 pm

athanisunset wrote:Great to see that it is not just myself who misses Gales beers. I worked in the sales team for two years before the closure of the brewery and can confirm that the Gales Bitter being drunk around 2005 was a re-branded GB and very different to Butser Best Bitter. You may remember that the original GB was brewed to be served through a sparkler but being a beer of the south, few publicans in the free-trade opted for this. When the beer changed to just 'Gales' the brewery took the step to finish with the sparkler in the pubs and changed the recipe too. I recall that more residual sugar was in the beer to give a fuller mouth feel and the abv was dropped from 4.0% to 3.8% - what a great beer! The yeast type may have been a Whitbread strain but I'm not too sure about that. You would do well by speaking with Malcom Irving at Irving and Co brewery, he was the 2nd brewer at Gales at the time. Also it's a shame that Fullers havn't really kept the original recipes either. Seafarers Ale is different (it was origianly a re-badged Crowning Glory seasonal) Winter Brew was delicious as it was made with Prize Old and then blended with Butser. And as for the likes of Summer Breeze and Spring Sprinter, these were never made at Horndean and are a Fullers creation!
Really great information! I love that kind of stuff: real-world, boots on the ground recon. Thanks for sharing, and welcome to Jim's.

Do you brew as well? If so, have you attempted to recreate any Gales recipes?

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by orlando » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:25 am

athanisunset wrote: I recall that more residual sugar was in the beer to give a fuller mouth feel and the abv was dropped from 4.0% to 3.8% - what a great beer! The yeast type may have been a Whitbread strain but I'm not too sure about that.
As Seymour says this sort of inside info is really good to have, thanks for sharing. I'm particularly intrigued by that snippet of information as I am currently drinking my version of this having used the Whitbread strain and it finished a little higher than I was expecting and has given the residual sweetness you describe. Here is the recipe for comment. Excuse the tasting notes blather, usually not for mass consumption but thought it might be of interest too.

Recipe: Full Force Gale

Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 7/11/13

Tasting Notes:

First taste and only 36 hours after starting carbonation. Pretty pleased with it, obviously not properly carbonated yet but I wanted to taste it early before it has over carbonated so I can adjust when I stop more readily. The clarity is not perfect but acceptable. Bitterness is much more forward than usual, which I'm pleased about, and I would argue the dry hopping with Admiral has imparted a little more perception of bitterness compared to the beer before dry hopping. There is a good malty backbone to this with something in the taste that suggests the water treatment and choice of yeast has had an influence. Need to think about it before pinning it down.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 35.62 l
Post Boil Volume: 29.12 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 24.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 17.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 84.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.200 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 EBC) Grain 1 88.8 %
0.200 kg Crystal Malt (150.0 EBC) Grain 2 4.2 %
0.150 kg Torrified Wheat (3.0 EBC) Grain 3 3.2 %
0.030 kg Black Malt (1280.0 EBC) Grain 4 0.6 %
0.150 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 5 3.2 %
20.00 g Fuggles [3.85 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 7.3 IBUs
12.00 g Admiral [16.56 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 18.5 IBUs
10.00 g Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 8 7.4 IBUs
0.50 tsp Protafloc (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 -
10.00 g Admiral [16.56 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Whitbread Ale (Wyeast Labs #1099) [124.2 Yeast 11 -
15.30 g Admiral [16.56 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 4.730 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 12.94 l of water at 74.5 C 65.6 C 70 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 28.26 l water at 75.6 C

Clarity is now extremely good and the malty backbone I mention has become more of a residual sweetness than maltiness. The Admiral hop was chosen as it has a more classic English Bitter characteristic. The note on bitterness perception has been debated elsewhere but I'm persuaded it exists.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Someone Somewhere In Summertime
Conditioning: Peaches, Reasons To Be Beerful
Drinking: From Russia With Love (RIS), Summer Sunshine

Up Next:
Planning: Summer drinking Beer.

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by orlando » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:13 pm

This is a picture of my pint of Full Force Gale the Gales bitter homage. Any thoughts on whether it looks right from those that remember it, have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying it regardless.


Image
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Someone Somewhere In Summertime
Conditioning: Peaches, Reasons To Be Beerful
Drinking: From Russia With Love (RIS), Summer Sunshine

Up Next:
Planning: Summer drinking Beer.

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by hambrook » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:23 am

HSB is my favourite beer and since starting brewing 5 months ago I have brewed 6 batches. I live 5 miles from the original brewery; I have done a brewery tour of the Fullers Brewery in January and last night did a tour of Irving Brewery in Portsmouth run by Malcolm Irving QC and brewer at Gales Ales Horndean when it closed. Some snippets of information:
- HSB had NO late hopping of any note
- It was fermented at 23.5 degrees for the first 24 hours
- Mash is at 64 degrees and not the 66 degrees in the Graham Wheeler recipe.
- it only used Crystal Light
- The yeast was Whitbread B
- Fullers do not use all the brewing steps that were used in the original.

I have brewed the Graham Wheeler Recipe as attached however the colour is 23.3 EBC when i put the recipe in Beer Smith and it is too light when brewed compared to the 37 EBC that Graham says it should be. I have tried boosting the Black Malt but, as commented, you do end up with a nutty edge. So I think the only option is swap out the Crystal for a Dark crystal which is against what I was told by Malcolm Irving last night. Does using a dark crystal malt impart any flavour changes?

I am brewing in a Braumesiter 20L and have just brewed an HSB clone a couple of days ago with (for the first time) proper water treatment with CRS and DLS. All of my HSB brews have been using Safale S-04 but I have just ordered some WYeast 1322 to TRY and get nearer the end result. The beer I am producing is highly quaffable just I'm set on not letting this one beat me - however; one word of caution - Malcolm has tried to re-create HSB but can't get the Yeast to produce the Esters, and frankly if the guy who once brewed this can't recreate it; I may step away in 2 or 3 brew time !

I'll keep you updated.
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Gales HSB Recipie.jpeg
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Now back to home brewing of a Braumeister 50L

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Goulders » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:01 pm

And you need to finish at 1013/1013.5

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Hanglow » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:11 pm

See for the sugar, did Malcolm Irving mention what type it was? If it was one of the darker brewers syrups that might account for it being darker than the ingredients suggest

it would also give flavours that the different malts don't
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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Goulders » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Invert sugar

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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Hanglow » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:59 pm

Yeah brewers syrup is invert, did he say which number? No2 or No3 especially would darken it up a fair bit

No1 is about 30 EBC
No2 is 65 EBC
No 3 is 130 EBC

I don't know what that would do to the total colour as its only 5% or so Should make a difference though
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Re: Gales Best Bitter revival

Post by Goulders » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:39 pm

He didn't say. But he said he told fullers 6 bullet points. He didn't tell us all of them, but the key ones in order were:
1. 23.5c for 24 hours
2. Finish at 1013/13.5
3. No late hops
4. Yeast he thought was Whitbread B
5. Gales propagated their yeast every 2 weeks.

Sugar was mentioned in passing and he said you could get away with using normal sugar but recommended golden syrup as an alternative.

He uses a different yeast nowadays so he couldn't replicate HSB when he tried.

I'm not bothered about cloning this beer but if I was I would probably ask brewlab. He definitely said that the first 24 hours was key to getting the fruity esters the beer was famous for.

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