1940 Whitbread London Stout

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Eric
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by Eric » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:53 pm

Fuggled Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:29 am
Eric wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 pm
I believe their process dissolves appropriate cane sugars (sucrose) in heated water, then hydrochloric acid is added to achieve a specific pH. When inversion is complete, the acidity is neutralised with sodium bicarbonate. For solid block the syrup is then seeded with fructose.
Wow, complicated process. That's definitely not how I make it when I knock up a 1kg batch in the kitchen. :shock:

Amazing how something so light can darken things so much.

Was this the only way invert number 3 was made?
It is a complex operation and there are several ways to make invert. A more complicated task is that to determine the amount of sugars retained and what proportion of them were inverted when we try making it at home.

The information was by Ragus drawn to my attention by a more informed brewer than I. Sadly I find their website difficult to navigate, but if you wish to look at product finder and select "Beverages" to find the sections for Liquid Brewers Invert, from there you might find the information I was trying to convey.

Refined sugar is white, the unrefined source is not.
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Fuggled Mind
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by Fuggled Mind » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:01 am

Thanks Eric

You're right, the website is a pain to navigate but looking through google, I found the following

https://www.ragus.co.uk/product/brewingsugars/#

This confirms that invert is available as a syrup and as a solid block. I wonder if the taste is identical and whether it would ever be possible to one day buy invert number 3 in a tin. I mean they can do it with golden syrup, treacle and molasses but I guess it's a question of demand for which there is probably very little
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Eric
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by Eric » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:11 pm

Fuggled Mind wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:01 am
Thanks Eric

You're right, the website is a pain to navigate but looking through google, I found the following

https://www.ragus.co.uk/product/brewingsugars/#

This confirms that invert is available as a syrup and as a solid block. I wonder if the taste is identical and whether it would ever be possible to one day buy invert number 3 in a tin. I mean they can do it with golden syrup, treacle and molasses but I guess it's a question of demand for which there is probably very little
The difference between syrup and block is very little as far as the beer is concerned, it is all to do with handling. Tankers are needed for delivery and tanks on site for storage for syrups. I can't remember exactly, but an extra 5 or 10% fructose or dextrose is added to make the syrup crystaliise and the rest is the same. I remember Graham Wheeler saying he would look out for delivery tankers at breweries to determine the types of sugars used by particular breweries. If you search the web hard enough it is possible to confirm that sugar production for the brewing industry was substantial. Several originated as by-products of processes producing other types of sugars for the food industry which breweries would gladly utilise.

I would imagine the demand for brewing sugars as a proportion of all grists must currently be very small, but I will also suggest that similar is happening to barley as a proportion when such as corn, rice, sorghum, buckwheat, millet and quinoa are being used worldwide, not only for gluten free products. Anyway, we've hijacked this thread enough.


EDIT. Sorry, I've just realised it is your thread anyway.
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HTH1975
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by HTH1975 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm

The stuff I got was from Bako in Durham - same as the photo posted previously. It came in a 25kg block (minimum order). I did it as a group purchase on the craft beer forum.

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Eric
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by Eric » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:24 am

HTH1975 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm
The stuff I got was from Bako in Durham - same as the photo posted previously. It came in a 25kg block (minimum order). I did it as a group purchase on the craft beer forum.
Yes, I think it might have been your purchase that inspired mine for #1, #2 and #3. It does make the most wonderful beers of times sadly long since past.
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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by HTH1975 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:59 pm

Eric wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:24 am
HTH1975 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm
The stuff I got was from Bako in Durham - same as the photo posted previously. It came in a 25kg block (minimum order). I did it as a group purchase on the craft beer forum.
Yes, I think it might have been your purchase that inspired mine for #1, #2 and #3. It does make the most wonderful beers of times sadly long since past.
It’s a ‘lost’ ingredient in some ways, to the homebrewer anyway since it’s not readily available unless you’re willing to buy in bulk.

The reticence to use sugar in beer is weird, it’s just another ingredient. The skill of the brewer is balancing all of the ingredients, whatever they may be.

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Re: 1940 Whitbread London Stout

Post by Fuggled Mind » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:10 pm

I took a sample of the stout today and I'm happy with the gravity. It reached the target F.G. of 1.012. giving an ABV 0f 4.1%. What I'm not quite as happy with is how cloudy it is or how light it is. It really is a light brown. I know my homemade invert no 3 is probably too light but I suppose to get a truly dark beer, you'll need a healthy dose of caramel. The beer as it stands might just work as a mild or even a porter but definitely not a stout :?

I know it's only the trial jar but the taste is biscuity with quite a lot of earthiness from the fuggles (but little bitterness for a beer that is supposedly 35 IBU). The body for a beer mashed at 64°C is full and there's not a hint of dryness - the opposite. It's quite sweet - if you've drunk Belhaven beers, then you'll know what I mean. I sure hope the yeast clears up. I've not used Empire Ale before but bought it to brew a dark beer. If it had been darker, the cloudiness wouldn't have been an issue :wink:

Anyone else have any experience of Mangrove Jack's Empire Ale or Newcastle dark ale?
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.
W. C. Fields

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