Home Brew Forum

I made a little video of my IPA brewday, which went somewhat wrong, due to having to top up the mash tun with lots of boiling water, meaning I couldn't sparge.

Any critique on my process would be appreciated. Next time I think I'll try and make sure all the pH readings are taken at 20C.

I'm sure those oats weren't crushed now also heh!

chris,
Great video!
All those pipes, all those things, all that other stuff, and the other stuff, and more stuff, great fun!
I`m glad I`m doing Kits and TC`s
I will not be taken to the `Dark Side`.

WA

Sent from Sofa whilst watching Ed Sheeran on youtube.

The oats appeared to be oat husks which are added to aid mash drainage.

Consider mixing all the ingredients beforehand. The enzymes will be more evenly distributed through the mash enabling a more speedily and thorough conversion.

Ideally you should add grist and liquor together, but otherwise add the grist to the water while stirring. Use 2.5 litres of liquor per kg of grist. An option is to do that in two stages so after half is mixed the temperature can be measured and adjustment made. A litre of water at 10C will cool a mash at 70C more than a litre of boiling water will raise one at 60C.

Do you measure or know your water's alkalinity and adjust or are using RO water? This is a vital part and whatever adjustment is necessary should be done before mashing in.

Chill a glass before taking the sample for pH and when it gets down to 20C, transfer it to a second container which is at 20C. This helps getting a correct pH reading.

Haha cheers WA.

Ah thanks Eric, I'll have to double check then exactly what I ordered regarding the oats.

You mean mixing all the grains right? That's a good point.

Ahh, I was adding the liquor to the grist, is that bad then? Yeah I was going for around 3l / kg iirc. But I didn't take into account of how much heat
would be lost just by transferring the liquor from the HLT to mash tun.

I calculated the salts to add using bru 'n water, using my water profile. You mean I should also take pH readings of my water?

Thanks that's a good idea re. chilling glass, I was using that water bath to try and cool it.

It is more effective to mix the two by adding grains into water than the other way about. Pouring water onto grains is more likely to make dough-balls, clumps of dry grains held together by a wet outer coating.

Put your mash liquor at about 80C into the mash tun and stir until the temperature settles to the required strike temperature. The calculator used will not likely be able to calculate the amount of heat the mash tun absorbs in the process.

The pH of your water is of little value at this stage, it is the amount of alkalinity it contains that is important. While alkalinity will be in some way related to pH, when mashing it is the level of alkalinity present that requires to be controlled as well any salt additions. You mention your water profile, what level of alkalinity is there and what does B+W suggest for treating it?

Gotcha, thanks I'll make sure to add the grains after now.

80C seems a better temp thanks.

Yeah sorry I was a bit confused about what you meant by alkalinity. I just checked my water report again, my alkalinity was 28.
I think I'm right in thinking bru n water, seems to calculate that value too, based on ppm of some of the salts.

For water treating I added at the mash:
Gypsum: 2.1g
Calcium chloride: 4.1g

And at the boil I added:
Gypsum: 1.8g
Calcium chloride: 3.5g

To try to get:
150ppm calcium,100ppm sulphate,200ppm chloride

By treating, are you referring to the 'sparging water acidification calculator' section. It says final water alkalinity 4ppm for sparge water and 0ml lactic acid required.

This is the first time I've used this spreadsheet and treated my water, so I'd be interested to know if I've made any major mistakes with it.

So it was your water report that advised the sample tested had alkalinity of 28 ppm as calcium carbonate. You would therfore enter that value into the calculator, it might in turn convert it to other units of measurement, but it does not calculate it. Alkalinity is not a salt and a salt does not add alkalinity.

It should help your cause to read more on this subject. You have gone to the extent of measuring pH and of all that influences pH, alkalinity possibly has most during both mash and sparge and it is usual to treat it for both. However, at the level of 28 ppm such treatment will be relatively minor compared with most other brewers.

I'm unable to advise you on the use of any calculator, however that said, it seems wrong that alkalinty can be reduced from an initial value of 28 to 4ppm with zero acid. I find it more suitable, easier and quicker to do such with a piece of plain paper, pencil and a basic 4 function calculator when at the very least I'm not restricted to the limitations either of or by its creator.

Bru 'n water does seem to calculate it for me though based on at least the value of bicarbonate and carbonate. I assume they're not actually salts though then? (My chemistry isn't great, I thought they may have been). Its calculated value matches my water report alkalinity value of 28 though.

Yeah I'll definitely do some more reading on alkalinity now. I've got a copy of the water book I should root out.

Edit: Ah it's starting to make sense a little now, so for a pale ale you want an alkalinity of 25 or less and that's corrected with acids. So it sounds like you add CRS/.. to reduce that, and that's done on all water in the HLT?

I've been reading https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water_alkalinity.htm which is very useful for me

chris2012 wrote: ↑

Thu May 02, 2019 11:36 pm

Bru 'n water does seem to calculate it for me though based on at least the value of bicarbonate and carbonate. I assume they're not actually salts though then? (My chemistry isn't great, I thought they may have been). Its calculated value matches my water report alkalinity value of 28 though.

Several different items are measured as calcium carbonate. Such measurements are not the amount of calcium carbonate present, but the amount of it that has similar influence to what is being measured. Hardness is, for example, a measure of the amount of calcium and magnesium in water, but is usually measured in terms of calcium carbonate. So if water contains magnesium it has hardness, and even when there is no calcium or calcium carbonate present, it can be measured in terms of calcium carbonate. At first this seems nonsense made worse by calcium carbonate not readily soluble in water, but it standardises the measurement to simplify matters for the brewer.

Calcium carbonate is used as a measurement of alkalinity too. Bru'nwater seems to split it between bicarbonate and carbonate, but that's a bit academic. In practical terms it matters not to the brewer if it is from bicarbonate or carbonate, or whether in the presence of calcium, magnesium or sodium. It is the quantity in the water used and the amount of adjustment necessary to suit the grains chosen for that particular brew.

chris2012 wrote: ↑

Thu May 02, 2019 11:36 pm

Yeah I'll definitely do some more reading on alkalinity now. I've got a copy of the water book I should root out.

Not sure that's a suitable starting point. I've not read it fully, but what I did seemed like a poison manual and thought it was enough to put many off the idea of getting to grips with what comes out of their tap.

chris2012 wrote: ↑

Thu May 02, 2019 11:36 pm

Edit: Ah it's starting to make sense a little now, so for a pale ale you want an alkalinity of 25 or less and that's corrected with acids. So it sounds like you add CRS/.. to reduce that, and that's done on all water in the HLT?

Some grists need less alkalinity in the mash than others to achieve a suitable pH, but that pH will rise if sparging with the same liquor as sugars and their buffering powers diminish. Accordingly it is common practise to have a lower level of alkalinity in sparge liquor, particularly towards the end as the sugar content approaches zero.
1 ml of CRS will neutralise 183 mg of alkalinity measured as calcium carbonate and your water has alkalinity at 28mg/L. So 10 litres of your water contains 280mg of alkalinity and if you added 1ml of CRS the alkalinity remaining would be 97mg, whch would be 9.7mg/L, say 10mg/L.

chris2012 wrote: ↑

Thu May 02, 2019 11:36 pm

I've been reading https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water_alkalinity.htm which is very useful for me

YES!!!!

Thanks a lot for the help Eric!

I'm just reading now about how to measure alkalinity as that sounds like it's doable using the pH meter I have and some CRS and a syringe or burette by the sounds of it.

chris2012 wrote: ↑

Fri May 03, 2019 4:29 pm

Thanks a lot for the help Eric!

I'm just reading now about how to measure alkalinity as that sounds like it's doable using the pH meter I have and some CRS and a syringe or burette by the sounds of it.

Or, more simply, use a Salifert kit!

Guy

Who taught you to brew all-grain? That is all way too complicated, gadgetry going on, stuff and more stuff. As long as you got beer that tastes ok, fair play.

Many commercial 10BBL, 20 BBL breweries use, NO, none, not any electronic gadgetry.

Return to basics, they work. Filter your water, in-line fridge cartridge, liquor at 75c, mash at 66c - 2.5 ltrs per kg at 75c liquor will give a mash at 66c if malt at ambient temp.
Sparse, boil, cool to 20c, add yeast.

Bish, bash, bosh, beer made.

The wheel was invented years ago.

That's the most complex brewing set up I have ever seen!

@Tarmac has it.

Beer is simple. Keep it simple.

I guess you enjoy building and playing with the electronics as much as the brewing itself?

gobuchul wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:03 pm

That's the most complex brewing set up I have ever seen!

Perhaps you haven't seen many!!

Seemed quite straightforward to me. Mash tun, boiler with hop spider. various bits of equipment to check how things are going.

Hopefully in the year since Chris 2012 posted this he's sorted out his water treatment, started adding the grains to the liquor and is hitting the right mash temperature.

How's it going, Chris2012?

Guy

Good skills on posting a video, pics are my limit

Some one was good enough to show me the basics, hlt, mash, boiler, cooling, pitch the yeast.
Went home and made a set up based on this guys efforts. May need to go back/fwd a page
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80962

Went to work in a brewery, low and behold the process was exactly the same, just bigger volume. Water treatment gypsum/salts was only difference, then finings for finished product.

I now use Gelatine for finings, after 11 yrs brewing, works great.

No Grainfather thanks, easier and faster the traditional way.