This strikes me as an odd way to go about getting 150g crystal impact in essentially an extract beer.
Just thinking aloud, I'd steer clear of an extended boil on a hopped extract beer - the extract is already long boiled.
I was thinking you might be able to do a mini-mash with maybe a litre of water, batch sparge (in a saucepan) and then boil that (which you could late hop) before adding to the extract. Partial mash style?
If you were to add it to the extract for a long boil, I'd think a fine mesh grain bag would work. This is what I used to use to aroma hop my extract beers. I just wouldn't want to give my extract another long boil.
What I used to do: heat up my extract in 2-3 gal of water, add hops in bag. I never even went for the boil; just ca. 90C for sanitation of hops and some steep time.
Add this to 1 gal of cold filtered water in fermenter (heat sink) and then top up with another gallon of filtered water to get brew length and OG.
If you stick a grain bag in a concentrated wort, I'd think that you would lose a lot of fermentables by liquid hold-up in the grain. I wouldn't think concentrated wort is the best medium for extracting the crystal since some of the effect is achieved by concentration gradient.
If you went at full brew length, similar comments apply, plus you're heating up a lot of extra liquid for no very good reason.
Just some thoughts. I am actually tempted from time to time to do some more extract brews on mashing days so I can get two batches in the fermenters for one brewing session.
Using grain with extract
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sagwalla
If you start with the grain in a bag in 3 gal, you could always "sparge" with a kettle after removing the grain bag with a brewing spoon to recover some fermentables, since you'll need the water anyway. I usually gave the hop bag a strong press against the side of the kettle. You might not squeeze a tea bag for fear of getting too tannic, but you can probably get away with it for grain if you don't press too hard.
The thing about doing the partial mini-mash would be that it could probably take place while the kettle is raising heat (I did it on the hob top, where heating 3 gal takes forever).
I guess if you're using unhopped, you need to do the boil. Do report back on what you decide.
I'm planning to brew this weekend; pale ale from grain. Still haven't bought the grain, so it might wind up being Sunday unless I get an early start on Saturday.
The thing about doing the partial mini-mash would be that it could probably take place while the kettle is raising heat (I did it on the hob top, where heating 3 gal takes forever).
I guess if you're using unhopped, you need to do the boil. Do report back on what you decide.
I'm planning to brew this weekend; pale ale from grain. Still haven't bought the grain, so it might wind up being Sunday unless I get an early start on Saturday.
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sagwalla
150g of grain is not very much. I'm sure a large grain bag will suffice. Think about putting the hops in there, too. Cuts down on the solids. Use it the next time you hop extract.
I'm going to use my 'standard' grain bill, but finally with all of my necessities in hand (yeast, hops). My target product is a strong IPA. Actually, I think I'll leave part of the caramalt out, but still use some. I feel its effects are good, but the colour effect is overkill. Maybe could cut crystal instead.
BTW, and I assume that others might read this - I have the 'brick' of US-56 Safale and would be happy to send 10-20g to other registered members on SAE basis. Let's find a way that avoids the spam. Just now I'm not sure my private messaging is working, but if it is, that would work.
I'm going to use my 'standard' grain bill, but finally with all of my necessities in hand (yeast, hops). My target product is a strong IPA. Actually, I think I'll leave part of the caramalt out, but still use some. I feel its effects are good, but the colour effect is overkill. Maybe could cut crystal instead.
BTW, and I assume that others might read this - I have the 'brick' of US-56 Safale and would be happy to send 10-20g to other registered members on SAE basis. Let's find a way that avoids the spam. Just now I'm not sure my private messaging is working, but if it is, that would work.
I use grains with extract all the time.
I steep upto 300gm grain (choc, crystal etc) in 1.8 litres in a large thermos for 30 mins.
While that's steeping I start bringing my extract to the boil in about 7 litres of water.
At the end of the 30 minutes I pour the wort from the thermos into the pot and rinse the grains with another 1.8 litres of water - using a standard kitchen sieve
When boiling, hop additions start
I end up boiling about 10 litres and chill that and top up in the fermenter.
I had been boiling the total amount of extract, but settled on only 1.5kg, disolving the balance after the boil. Better hop utilisation and quicker to come to the boil
I steep upto 300gm grain (choc, crystal etc) in 1.8 litres in a large thermos for 30 mins.
While that's steeping I start bringing my extract to the boil in about 7 litres of water.
At the end of the 30 minutes I pour the wort from the thermos into the pot and rinse the grains with another 1.8 litres of water - using a standard kitchen sieve
When boiling, hop additions start
I end up boiling about 10 litres and chill that and top up in the fermenter.
I had been boiling the total amount of extract, but settled on only 1.5kg, disolving the balance after the boil. Better hop utilisation and quicker to come to the boil
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sagwalla
I should probably post to the Yeast thread, but...
US-56 is the new Safale dry version of Wyeast 1056, which is said to be in turn the "Chico" yeast used in, among others, Sierra Nevada (of Chico, California), which is believed to be the yeast once used by Ballantine's IPA, an iconic US ale that is no longer produced.
I've used the Wyeast version once before, and now have pitched the dry twice (porter, IPA). Apart from sampling the porter as I racked to secondary, I haven't tried the results of either (the IPA was made this weekend), but early results are promising. Although I pitch dry (no starter), it takes off quickly; I pitched yesterday afternoon and had thrips and thraps from the fermenter this morning in <2sec intervals.
Jaytee - your partial mash sounds pretty spot-on to me.
My IPA this weekend, BTW, looks okay, although low recovery. When I saw the grain at mash, I thought, "This doesn't look crushed enough." Too late to do anything about that. Sure enough, I only had OG of 1046 (I've achieved 1056 with the same grain bill), and the final runnings from the sparge were at 1013, where I've had 1006 before. Still, 1046 should produce an acceptable product, so I wasn't tempted to top up with sugar or some spraymalt I had to hand.
US-56 is the new Safale dry version of Wyeast 1056, which is said to be in turn the "Chico" yeast used in, among others, Sierra Nevada (of Chico, California), which is believed to be the yeast once used by Ballantine's IPA, an iconic US ale that is no longer produced.
I've used the Wyeast version once before, and now have pitched the dry twice (porter, IPA). Apart from sampling the porter as I racked to secondary, I haven't tried the results of either (the IPA was made this weekend), but early results are promising. Although I pitch dry (no starter), it takes off quickly; I pitched yesterday afternoon and had thrips and thraps from the fermenter this morning in <2sec intervals.
Jaytee - your partial mash sounds pretty spot-on to me.
My IPA this weekend, BTW, looks okay, although low recovery. When I saw the grain at mash, I thought, "This doesn't look crushed enough." Too late to do anything about that. Sure enough, I only had OG of 1046 (I've achieved 1056 with the same grain bill), and the final runnings from the sparge were at 1013, where I've had 1006 before. Still, 1046 should produce an acceptable product, so I wasn't tempted to top up with sugar or some spraymalt I had to hand.
Daft as a Brush - never boiled grains - thought this extracted unwanted flavours ?
Always steeped at 65-68C and always in water, never with extract
The Thermos & sieve is good for grain upto about 500gm - over that and I wish I had a grain bag !
Never used the W1056, been using the W1968 - wicked fermenatations, really quick to start. Or the W1275 for a drier beer - really good in the 16-18C range
QUOTE it calls for 150g of crystal malt to be added to the boil. Whats the simplest/best way to contain the grain in these types of recipes.
Personaly, I'd steep this 30 minutes and then rinse some 65C water through it then add extract and make up to the boil volume with boiling water from the kettle
Always steeped at 65-68C and always in water, never with extract
The Thermos & sieve is good for grain upto about 500gm - over that and I wish I had a grain bag !
Never used the W1056, been using the W1968 - wicked fermenatations, really quick to start. Or the W1275 for a drier beer - really good in the 16-18C range
QUOTE it calls for 150g of crystal malt to be added to the boil. Whats the simplest/best way to contain the grain in these types of recipes.
Personaly, I'd steep this 30 minutes and then rinse some 65C water through it then add extract and make up to the boil volume with boiling water from the kettle
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sagwalla
Well, it sounds like it's going well enough. I guess you're aiming for high 4s ABV which must be about right for style. My latest batch started 1046 and racked to secondary at 1010, so broadly similar and I'm guessing 4.8 final based on FG 1008.
I suppose the tsp of sugar is just to kick-start the yeast in the secondary to make sure you have a head of CO2 to displace out the air. I worry (not much, mind you) about this when racking.
To date, I just force-carbonate at kegging rather than priming the keg.
I guess if you've lost 2 litres, you know the impact of the hop bag.
I've never dry-hopped like that before. Closest I've come is hopping after I've inserted the cooling coil, then turning on the water and letting the hops steep while cooling. I've done that on my last batch and it seems to be mighty hoppy. Tea time.
I'm unclear how useful the finings are going to be in the secondary. I thought the point was to have them in the copper to circulate with the boil and help with the protein floc. If you just tip them in, aren't they just going to settle to the bottom? I think you'd get better treatment by going through a fine filter (or a mesh bag) during racking. Just need to watch sanitation.
I suppose the tsp of sugar is just to kick-start the yeast in the secondary to make sure you have a head of CO2 to displace out the air. I worry (not much, mind you) about this when racking.
To date, I just force-carbonate at kegging rather than priming the keg.
I guess if you've lost 2 litres, you know the impact of the hop bag.
I've never dry-hopped like that before. Closest I've come is hopping after I've inserted the cooling coil, then turning on the water and letting the hops steep while cooling. I've done that on my last batch and it seems to be mighty hoppy. Tea time.
I'm unclear how useful the finings are going to be in the secondary. I thought the point was to have them in the copper to circulate with the boil and help with the protein floc. If you just tip them in, aren't they just going to settle to the bottom? I think you'd get better treatment by going through a fine filter (or a mesh bag) during racking. Just need to watch sanitation.
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sagwalla
Seventeen days is a bit of a stretch...I usually give my bottles 3 weeks before serving (I tried some at two weeks once and they weren't ready, YMMV).
So, something that ferments in record time, well aerated and pitching a yeast starter. Can you just run with a Woodforde's kit off the shelf and maybe sex it up a little? Might still give you 12-13 days in the bottles. The problem is that if you hustle them off to bottles, you've got potential grenades on your hand. Been there, done that, ruined that carpet.
I guess if you scatter finings over the top, by the time they settle out they've run down through and filtered the beer.
I usually go straight to cask, too. I'm using secondary here for similar reasons to your own. My porter, in the main, is for Christmas. The pale ale is for the festival, but I want it to pour really bright, so want to reduce the yeast xfer to cask.
So, something that ferments in record time, well aerated and pitching a yeast starter. Can you just run with a Woodforde's kit off the shelf and maybe sex it up a little? Might still give you 12-13 days in the bottles. The problem is that if you hustle them off to bottles, you've got potential grenades on your hand. Been there, done that, ruined that carpet.
I guess if you scatter finings over the top, by the time they settle out they've run down through and filtered the beer.
I usually go straight to cask, too. I'm using secondary here for similar reasons to your own. My porter, in the main, is for Christmas. The pale ale is for the festival, but I want it to pour really bright, so want to reduce the yeast xfer to cask.
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sagwalla
QUOTE By the way, is it the yeast that causes beer to mature or are there other factor involved ?
I guess whether directly or indirectly the yeast has the most to do with this. As I understand, the yeast will continue to work on those hard-to-ferment compounds over time, which will change the nature of the beer.
If you <gack> pasteurised your beer, you would destroy that mechanism. From what I read / hear, that's basically dead beer. I suppose it's still chemically active - photochemistry, temperature variation, other breakdown mechanisms.
I recently found a few bottles of an old extract batch lurking in the back of my shed. These are probably from January or February, and they are different; IMO better than they were before. Mellower; didn't remind me so much of homebrew.
Still, gotta drink it sooner or later (I needed the bottles). It doesn't have an infinite shelflife.
I suppose there's a balance in what you consider maturation.
I guess whether directly or indirectly the yeast has the most to do with this. As I understand, the yeast will continue to work on those hard-to-ferment compounds over time, which will change the nature of the beer.
If you <gack> pasteurised your beer, you would destroy that mechanism. From what I read / hear, that's basically dead beer. I suppose it's still chemically active - photochemistry, temperature variation, other breakdown mechanisms.
I recently found a few bottles of an old extract batch lurking in the back of my shed. These are probably from January or February, and they are different; IMO better than they were before. Mellower; didn't remind me so much of homebrew.
Still, gotta drink it sooner or later (I needed the bottles). It doesn't have an infinite shelflife.
I suppose there's a balance in what you consider maturation.
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jean-yves
- Hollow Legs
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I never brew with extract, but in all grains beer destined for bottling are usually mashed on the high side of temperatures, 67-68°,to provide a sufficiency of slowly fermenting dextrin to produce condition in bottle.
When I bottle my beer, I add 3 gr per liter of cane sugar and leave the beer for a week in a warm place ( about 20°) to bring the beer into condition quickly and then move it to a cold place ( 5° to 10°) to mature for at least 4 weeks.
Don't open your bottle before that
I've learnt the method in the Graham Wheeler book's
When I bottle my beer, I add 3 gr per liter of cane sugar and leave the beer for a week in a warm place ( about 20°) to bring the beer into condition quickly and then move it to a cold place ( 5° to 10°) to mature for at least 4 weeks.
Don't open your bottle before that
I've learnt the method in the Graham Wheeler book's
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sagwalla