anyone JUST use 'd/lme + hops' with no crushed malt?

[simon50]

hello,

i know it is silly not to steep grain, as seen as we are boiling hops in the pan afterwards (also baring in mind how relatively inexpensive crushed malt is); but does anyone just use malt extract to account for 100% of their "grain" bill ? would doing so create a vast difference ? and of what detriment do you think to the finished beer?.

i was thinking for a recipe - "medium DME + a chosen hop in bulk @ 30 mins to achieve required bitterness", that's it

has anybody else done similar, or is there any reason do you think not to do this (if one does not set ones expectations too high beforehand) ?

thanks

[far9410]

Steeping grains to enhance extract brews was the progression to all grain brewing for me, before that I regularly did pure extract brews. Dme/ LME is expensive tho, so I managed to source a 25 kg Dme supply. If you're already steeping grains I can't see the point of stepping back

[simon50]

thanks for your reply,

recently bought 25kg of freshly expired (..."out of date" is so condescending) medium DME as it was going cheap, i only have a less then ideal pan and can only do small boils, that are manageable but by no means ideal.

i have yeast left but no hops / grain and was planning to keep any further spending to a minimum and just get a couple of 100g packs of hops from somewhere with cheap postage for the time being.

then for convenience (...lazy bastard) compact the process to the aforementioned, don't really want to be regressing too much, despite all the obvious corner cutting i am intending on doing

i have never not steeped before, can you remember how much of an enhancement the steeping grains actually gives ones beer vs without?, you must have been quite happy with it beforehand to do it regularly, which sounds encouraging!?

[Paddy Bubbles]

I'm an extract brewer but I've never not steeped specialty malts. I'd imagine you'd just end up with very bland beer. The specialty malts are there to provide character.

Also, most malt extracts are produced to be very fermentable. If you omitted the specialty malts you'd likely end up with a very thin beer - little mouthfeel and possibly little head retention.

Get some crystal malt in there!

[Fuggled Mind]

I was an extract brewer for about 4 years and I was always happy with the results but extract brews using steeping grains were always much more superior to those using 'pure extract'.

At the time when I started doing extract brews, I kept it very simple by using just extract, hops and yeast and thought the results were great (because the brews were so much better than kits). I brewed GW's Hopback Summer Lightning from BYO and John Palmer's Cincinnati Pale Ale from his website http://howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-1.html
However, when I started using steeping grains, I was no longer satisfied with pure extract brews. My first extract brew with steeping grains was GW's Highgate Mild from BYO. It only steeps black malt but the flavour was so different (and so much better) to extract only brews that I knew I didn't want to go back.

However, if you are happy with pure extract and don't see it as a step backwards, I can't see why you won't be happy. It's all a matter of personal taste at the end of the day.

Cheers

Jason

[simon50]

thanks for the replies,

i have been a complete and utter moron for not thinking of this until now, but to still keep the timeframe of the "hob work" down, there would be no difference whatsoever if i just used a separate pan to steep the grain for the very same half an hour i am intending to boil my hops with, then give it a 2 minute boil after removing grain bag?

does anyone know of a good site with cheap-o prices for delivery if i am ordering over 1kg?, suppose i may as well just spend all my money now to justify a delivery cost as usual

FFS

thanks for all your help!

[Fuggled Mind]

It's possible to keep the grains in the pan when boiling your extract. Graham Wheeler advocates it in BYO and I tried it twice. People say you shouldn't do it as it introduces grainy off flavours but of the couple of times that I did it, I didn't notice any difference in taste.

The only problem I had was seperating the wort from the hops and grains as I never used any bags.

Whatever you decide, good luck with the brewing and just remember - it's still going to make beer.

Cheers

Jason

[simon50]

sorry, i re-read my post and realised how jumbled it was

i meant using 2 pans total; 1pan for steeping grains, 1 pan for boiling hops with DME, each on the cooker at the same time for half an hour (obviously one steeping and one boiling).

then just bring the steeping one to the boil for 2 minutes having removed the grain bag to kill anything residual that may be in it that is not already dead (i usually aim to steep at just under 70c) ?

so that should promptly bring the usually laborious pan work of 1hour 30mins+ down to around 30mins total, and yet still have the crushed malt goodness that it would appear i have been quite (...very) stupid to entertain the thought of leaving out ?

[Jocky]

Sounds interesting. Try it and report back!

[Fuggled Mind]

This was one of my many motivations for going all-grain.

I too used to steep the grains then prepare the extract. It can make for a long day in the kitchen. I realised when you include things like cooling I was spending almost as much time brewing as I am now doing AG. This led to a change in the way I did things.

I also did what you suggest. Whilst steeping the grains (I always used a 5L pasta pan), I'd get the extract on in a second pan with enough water to dilute (for this I have a 15L stock pot). I didn't however, add my hops until I'd transferred my steeping liquor to the main pan and got a good boil going.

Cheers

Jason

[simon50]

i've just been, having put my 6l pan on (the biggest one i own) dumping around 3kg of DME in my fv, waiting for the plume of sugar smoke to subside whilst shutting my eyes and holding my breath, adding water and swearing at it for about 2 hours at which point my arms can no longer turn the paddle anymore and then poor on the still neigh on boiling hot concentrated hopped wort 80% in the bucket and 20% on the kitchen floor using oven gloves (don't want to melt my auto-syphon).

i have always meant to invest in a big pan but then always end up buying the ingredients for the next brew instead.

i think i may encounter trouble at some point with improper storage of the big bag of out of date malt i recently bought, but until that day; job's a good'un !

[darrellm]

i meant using 2 pans total; 1pan for steeping grains, 1 pan for boiling hops with DME, each on the cooker at the same time for half an hour (obviously one steeping and one boiling).

I do it that way: smaller pan for steeping, then when it's done transfer the liquid to the bigger pan, add a bit more liquid, bring to the boil then add the malt extract and hops - jobs a good 'un

Ref using grains with extract brews, I'm in two minds: have done some good brews both with and without grains, those without tend to be more "session ale" standard whereas those with have been the richer, more special brews.

[far9410]

as\far asgetting hops/grain etc Ive used Malt Miller, Worcester hop shop and copper kettle, all good

[andyswallet]

So is a "hot break" not necessary for steeped grain? I think it takes 20 mins to an hr to get a hot break when brewing all grain?

[Jocky]

No. You don't need to worry about hot break from steeped grain. As it is, extract brewing produces very little break as most of it has already come out in the process of making the extract.