I've bought the Graham Wheeler book - boil volume question

[IHN]

On the advice of folks on here, I've picked up an old copy of the classic Graham Wheeler 'Brew Your Own Real Ale' book, arrived yesterday, it's great. I'm looking forward to reliving my youth with a Boddingtons, the first beer I ever bought in a pub (I was eighteen, honest Officer )

However, his two extract-based methods both call for an 11l boil. This is too large for the (12l) pan I've got, the most I can reasonably do whilst containing the foam is 8l. Am I okay to use the same method, but with a smaller boil volume, and just top up with more water when it goes into the FB?

[Cobnut]

If you reduce the boil volume to 8L with the same amount of extract, you will be advised to increase the hop quantities as hop utilisation is affected by boil gravity (higher gravity leads to less hop oil isomerisation).

IIRC, roughly speaking you'd need to increase the hops by 11/8th to achieve the same bitterness.

IDK whether Boddingtons is dry-hopped, but if so you don't need more dry hops as by then you'll be at full volume of the beer and dry hopping is about aroma and not bitterness.

(B)

[IHN]

Thanks.

However, I've just double checked and the method calls for an 18l boil, so I'd need to use just over double the amount (18/8) of hops specified. Maybe I should just get a bigger pan...

[orlando]

Maybe I should just get a bigger pan...

[PhilB]

Hi IHN

I've just double checked and the method calls for an 18l boil

... actually, you still haven't read ALL the instructions, IIRC Graham recommends first dissolving the malt extract in 18lts, then topping up to "full volume" (and I've seen posts by him on here where he's explained how he meant the end volume (i.e. 23 lts if that's how much the recipe is making))

Rather than adjust hop amounts, the point is that hop utilisation is dependant on gravity in the boil ... so if you want to boil in a proportion of the volume then only add that proportion of the extract, so for a 8lts boil (roughly 1/3 of the full 23 lts) you'd add a similar proportion (around 1/3 of the DME/LME) of the extract in the recipe ... boil your hops, then add the rest of the extract in at the end of boil ... if you top up with cold water to final volume then it'll take off some of the need to cool too much at end of boil too

Cheers, PhilB

[Cobnut]

Before I started AG brewing, I brewed extract based beers with DME.

(purists look away now!)

I'd boil hops in a small volume of water (c.5L). You get very good hop utilisation like this.

Then I'd mix the DME into the hop liquor in the fermenting bin and top up with sufficient cold water to make up the required volume.

You could do something similar in a 12L stock pot, maybe using 10L of water.

If you need to use any speciality grains they could be added to the boil too. I've done that too with decent results.

[IHN]

... actually, you still haven't read ALL the instructions, IIRC Graham recommends first dissolving the malt extract in 18lts, then topping up to "full volume"

Nah, it's definitely an 18l boil in the edition I've got (from 1995) The topping up is in the FB to get to the right OG.

But, anyway, okay, so boil with the same proportion of the boil extract/full extract amount as the proportion of the boil volume/final volume (but the same amount of hops as in the recipe). Gotcha.

His method also uses LME, so I'd need to do a bit of a calc if I wanted to use DME, but that's no issue.

Next question is where do I get the 'diastatic malt syrup' that some of the recipes call for...

[bitter_dave]

... actually, you still haven't read ALL the instructions, IIRC Graham recommends first dissolving the malt extract in 18lts, then topping up to "full volume"

Nah, it's definitely an 18l boil in the edition I've got (from 1995) The topping up is in the FB to get to the right OG.

But, anyway, okay, so boil with the same proportion of the boil extract/full extract amount as the proportion of the boil volume/final volume (but the same amount of hops as in the recipe). Gotcha.

His method also uses LME, so I'd need to do a bit of a calc if I wanted to use DME, but that's no issue.

Next question is where do I get the 'diastatic malt syrup' that some of the recipes call for...

Aha, you have an older edition! It isn’t available anymore. This means you can’t make any recipes which have it in it because it contains ingredients you would have to mash normally.

[IHN]

Whaaat? Oh FFS

No way around it I assume? Other than buy a newer book to go with my bigger pan?

[bitter_dave]

Whaaat? Oh FFS

No way around it I assume? Other than buy a newer book to go with my bigger pan?

I would not rush out and buy a more recent copy. Recipes which had diastic (sp?) malt extract in earlier editions simply omit malt extract versions in the most recent editions. Lots of the recipes in earlier editions don't need diastic malt extract anyway.

If you want to buy another book I would get the Greg Hughes one mentioned above. He advises you can boil 10 litres using 1 kg of malt extract for the full duration and the remaining malt extract in the last ten mins. The is no reason why you can't do this with Wheeler's recipes.

On the other hand you should get a bigger pan at some point anyway!

[IHN]

Ah, okay.

And yes, I probably should buy a bigger pan. And more buckets. And another brewfridge...