Reverse Engineering... kind of

[Shrunken Reaper]

Right, I’ve got two ‘relatively’ successful kit brews under my belt, but I wasn’t overly keen on the results of either and my plans for the next couple are to use BKE or spray malt, use a hop tea, etc… Basically I’ve got a long way to go, but I’ve got some big ideas for the future, and one of them is a kind of ‘Best’ Bitter but with a bit more Hop on the nose. (Imagine halfway between a Best and an IPA, but with more biscuit on the tongue... kind of thing)

Now, because I love to run before I can walk, and because I like to read up extensively on any hobby I get interested in, I’ve been playing around in Beer Engine and have come up with a design for my first run at this, now from what I’ve read, it could turn out to be quite tasty…

The only snag being that I’m nowhere near prepared enough for an All-Grain brew, so am going to start out with an Adapted Kit brew… My question is, if I provide you with the All-Grain recipe that BE has given me, can anyone help me to reverse engineer this into an adapted kit brew?

Okay my Beer Engine recipe is as follows

For 23litre
Grain Bill:
3.780 kg Pale Malt (Marris Otter)
614g Caramalt
236g Crystal Malt
94g Oat Malt

Hops:
65g Fuggles 90 minutes
16g EKG 15 minutes

Estimated OG 1.045, FG 1.011, 4.4%ABV, Colour - 17 EBC, Bitterness 41 IBU

[EoinMag]

That's hard done with any accuracy, consider doing an extract brew, that's easy enough converted.
Maybe if you threw up your recipe some of the kit hackers could probably have a go at getting close.

[Shrunken Reaper]

Yeah, the idea is to get it as close as possible, obviously not looking to get 100% accuracy... when I get in I'll pop the recipe on the bottom of my original post and see what I get back...

I'm essentially looking to get an idea of:

1) Which Kit to use as a base
2) Whether my added grains/adjuncts will do what I want them to
3) Whether the hops I've picked out will work in the way I've got them set up
4) Whether the original recipe seems liek it would be any good to start with

[DaveyT]

Hello
If you want to convert an all grain recipe to extract, substitute the bulk of the grains with pale dried malt extract (I much prefer this to liquid) and only leave the grains you can steep without mashing. I would say crystal malt, chocolate malt, roast barley and black malt are good starting points in terms of these. Anything beginning with the prefix 'cara' can also be steeped, as far as I know. I haven't used any of them yet, though.
You could even chuck in some wheat malt extract for a bit of head retention and lacing.
As long as you match the gravity, the IBUs and, if you're being really strict, the EBC, you're laughing. You might also want to look at the percentages of the grains, esp if you want to emulate a specific recipe. I like to use Graham Wheeler's recipes as he's a genius, but I tweak the percentages quite a lot.
I hope this helps. If you want to be more specific in answering those questions, you might want to single out an ingredient and brew something with that in mind. Find a recipe that only steeps chocolate malt, for instance, to see what that's like. Or use a single hop. Making the recipe too 'busy' might not help; beers are like curries - it's often about leaving things out as much as it is about putting them in.

Hope this helps
David

[Shrunken Reaper]

beers are like curries - it's often about leaving things out as much as it is about putting them in.

This is very true!!

First post now edited to include the BE recipe...

[Shrunken Reaper]

Okay... as suggested I've substituted the Pale Malt with Pale DME in my recipe and it comes out as follows

Pale DME 2.6kg
Caramalt 442g
Crystal Malt 162g
Oat Malt 65g

Hops remain the same... I'm figuring if i boil the hops in 500g or so of DME, this would have a similar effect to a wort boil, then steep the goldings as a kind of hop-tea towards the end??

The reason Oat Malt is in there is for 'velvety mouth feel' , Crystal Malt for the biscuit flavour, Caramalt for colour...

I also had some torrefied wheat in the original recipe, for head retention, but it looked far too messy by then, so i streamlined it...

[DaveyT]

I boil all my DME but there are various opinions about it. Give it a whirl.
How big's your boiler/pan? I boil as much water as I can (only about 8l), steeping the grains and adding the DME and hops. I then top up with cold water. I only do 12l brews, though. I think any more and I'd need a bigger boiler.
What's oat malt? I've never heard of it. Sounds interesting.
If you want to used torrefied wheat, you can use wheat malt extract instead. It shouldn't affect the flavour too much and you just stick it in with the rest. I think the going rate is three quarters of the wheat grain requirement. It works a treat.

[Shrunken Reaper]

I'm currently using an old 6 litre pressure cooker But I've got my ebay eye on a 14 litre stock pot for under £20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUCKINGHAM-DE ... 4aa605d794

Malted oats, from the grains section:

"MALTED OATS (UK)
Oats are extremely difficult to malt and to crush efficiently but their contribution to the flavour of certain speciality ales is significant. Oats are rich in oils and tend to promote a velvety texture in beer. Although many old recipes called for large quantities of malted oats, it is recommended they should be used with caution.
Colour 2 EBC Maximum percentage 5%"

[DaveyT]

Is that how you make kits; make a hop tea in a bit of water? That's really interesting. I'd approach an extract brew with a view to boiling the whole thing.
There's lots of debate about whether or not to boil DME but nobody ever seems to give it a go, or at least report back their findings. Let us know if it works.
Ditto about the oats; if they don't need mashing I'll be the first out to get some.

David