oat malt

[DaveyT]

I want to use oat malt in an extract brew and I believe I can steep it without barley.
If this is the case:
a) do I have to be rigid about the temp and time of the steep?
b) can I continue with my 15 min boils or do I have to boil longer to account for the oat malt?
I also have some biscuit malt which I also believe fits this category.
BTW I say 'I believe' as t'internet's full of contradictory advice that's doing my head in. I'd love to try new gains, but time still rules my brewing.

Cheers
David

[orlando]

Sorry David I don't know the answer to this but the fact it is malted suggests it can convert itself. If you can find out the Lintner value as long as it is above 30 it will have some diastatic power. If this is right then mashing/steeping in the usual way will suffice but it will require the right temp and time. I've never done an extract brew so as for boiling times it may well be OK to do only 15 minutes but hopefully someone else will come along and correct me.

[Jocky]

Steeping malt without any base malt will normally only release some flavour and colour from the malts. The exception is crystal malt, which will also release some sugars too, which add body to the beer.

So it really depends if your malt is heavily coloured/flavoured. Biscuit malt I think will add some flavour - it'll be subtle though. Oats probably won't add anything except a lot of starch which you really don't want in your beer. Normally oats would be mashed to gain some unfermentable sugars, which add body to the beer.

[orlando]

This blog might help.

[DaveyT]

Jocky - Oat malt isn't the same as oats. The should convert themselves. I need to mash them, though, not steep them. That is, I have to raise them to a required temperature then hold them for a required time before raising the temperature again. Steeping crystal malt just means we have to dissolve the sugars which can happen at many temperatures and doesn't take a fixed time. The fact that oat malt convert themselves means there's enough amylase to not require barley. In fact, Randy Moshers says they produce a lot of beta amylase meaning they should ferment better than barley. I don't quite understand that sentence, but it's giving the green light to brew with oat malt.

Orlando - thanks for the info and the link. I've seen that blog before. I'm glad he bothered sticking his neck out then bothered to let us know how it went! I don't think I have the time to make such gambles. Really interesting! Forgot about the Lintner value; will try and chase that up.

I'm making a saison. I think I'll mash as Mosher recommends in his book then boil for an hour. I don't want to gamble on my first run on this. However, I'm sitting here feeling very hot and uncomfortable so I might just take a punt rather than give myself a Turkish bath in my kitchen.

Thanks fellas.

David

[Jocky]

Well colour me corrected. Cheers guys.

[DaveyT]

Well colour me corrected. Cheers guys.

As a fellow extract brewer, Jocky, I'm interested to know - would you be tempted to give this a go?

[Jocky]

I think you're getting into partial mashes, which is certainly the direction I'm going very very soon as I seem to have hit the limits of what I can do with the basic extracts and steeping grains.

Would I partial mash just with oat malt based upon the information you've pointed to? Probably not, I think I'd play it safe and go 50/50 with a base malt that I know that has an excess of diastatic enzymes. Alternatively get some EDME Diastatic liquid malt extract.

[6470zzy]

Jocky - Oat malt isn't the same as oats. The should convert themselves. I need to mash them, though, not steep them. That is, I have to raise them to a required temperature then hold them for a required time before raising the temperature again. Steeping crystal malt just means we have to dissolve the sugars which can happen at many temperatures and doesn't take a fixed time. The fact that oat malt convert themselves means there's enough amylase to not require barley. In fact, Randy Moshers says they produce a lot of beta amylase meaning they should ferment better than barley. I don't quite understand that sentence, but it's giving the green light to brew with oat malt.

I have brewed with them before and my recommendation to you is to make sure that they are well crushed. Oat malt are skinny little buggers and even after adjusting my malt mill I had to run them through twice. They do in fact ferment out very well , perhaps a little too much in fact leading to a very dry ale. Also do make certain that you check for conversion in the mash.

Cheers

[6470zzy]

Just noticed that you are wanting to use them in an extract brew. Indeed it is always fun to experiment, perhaps you would like to try Golden Naked Oats which you could in fact just steep as they are a sort of Crystal as opposed to going through a whole mashing regimen? Totally different flavour profile I will warrant you , however it will still lend a good addition to your beer.

Cheers

[DaveyT]

Fellas
This is all good info and is helping me get where I want to be.
In terms of the 'gamble' of oat malt not converting. Can I perform a simple iodine test to see if things have done what they were meant to do? I totally agree with adding malt, but I'm out in the Canary Islands now and, hopefully, will be brewing sooner than any new supplies can reach me.
The same goes for the naked oats. I didn't know anything about them when I was stocking up in the UK last month. Would've got those instead as this is purely for texture rather than flavour. Having said that the oat malt smells amazing.
Thinking about the 'mash regime' makes me reconsider using oat malts. I'll have to start this once the kids have gone to bed and they'll be waking up just as early the next day so I don't want to be wasting time. I had thought this might happen: (time taken to boil water is based on previous experience)
8pm start heating 8l water
8.30 add oat malt when water reaches 67 C
9pm raise heat to 71 C and remove oat malt
9.30 to 10.30 rolling boil
Does this sound realistic? If it isn't, I think I'll plumb for CaraPils and keep my usual time-frame.

[6470zzy]

You can certainly do an iodine test to check for conversion, that is what I have done with the oat malt in the past. I think that you will be needing more than 30 minutes for your mash as the oat malt is not as modified you might think. Once again though your iodine will tell the tale.

Slightly off topic, but as I see that you are in the Canary Islands, have you ever tried your hand at making a Banana wine? If not , you should give it a go.

Cheers

[DaveyT]

Can I use standard bathroom iodine? One guy posted that it took him two hours to convert. I haven't got that kind of time!

Strange that you mention the wine! I'm actually sitting looking at eight bananas that are too ripe to eat and wondering if I should feed them to my in-laws' tortoises or brew them! I found a YouTube video of someone just boiling, straining then fermenting them. Is it that easy? I was also thinking of some ginger or fennel. Here they make bread with fennel so it would be even more Canarian if I stuck that in.

[orlando]

Fellas
This is all good info and is helping me get where I want to be.
In terms of the 'gamble' of oat malt not converting. Can I perform a simple iodine test to see if things have done what they were meant to do? I totally agree with adding malt, but I'm out in the Canary Islands now and, hopefully, will be brewing sooner than any new supplies can reach me.
The same goes for the naked oats. I didn't know anything about them when I was stocking up in the UK last month. Would've got those instead as this is purely for texture rather than flavour. Having said that the oat malt smells amazing.
Thinking about the 'mash regime' makes me reconsider using oat malts. I'll have to start this once the kids have gone to bed and they'll be waking up just as early the next day so I don't want to be wasting time. I had thought this might happen: (time taken to boil water is based on previous experience)
8pm start heating 8l water
8.30 add oat malt when water reaches 67 C
9pm raise heat to 71 C and remove oat malt
9.30 to 10.30 rolling boil
Does this sound realistic? If it isn't, I think I'll plumb for CaraPils and keep my usual time-frame.

As time seems to be the major issue have you thought of splitting the brew over 2 days? I've not done this myself so you will have to search on here for the specifics but simply put you do the mash one evening and then do the boil the next. I know some have talked about the no chill method, which gets the brew to the end of boil the wort is then put in a plastic cube sealed and allowed to cool to pitching temps over night. The former is more suitable to you though as you run less risk of infection.

[6470zzy]

Can I use standard bathroom iodine? One guy posted that it took him two hours to convert. I haven't got that kind of time!

Strange that you mention the wine! I'm actually sitting looking at eight bananas that are too ripe to eat and wondering if I should feed them to my in-laws' tortoises or brew them! I found a YouTube video of someone just boiling, straining then fermenting them. Is it that easy? I was also thinking of some ginger or fennel. Here they make bread with fennel so it would be even more Canarian if I stuck that in.

Yes your bathroom iodine will be quite fine for the purpose. As far as time to convert , I have always mashed my oat malt with some six row so I have never had to go past 60 minutes for conversion although I do generally like to mash for 90 minutes as a rule. Needed or not

Banana wine is so easy to make, I do peel mine, although I see that many people don't as they want the tannins from the skins. With peeling them though the wine is drinkable much faster. I do not strain after the boil I leave the whole lot in the FV and let it go. Granted I end up with a massive goopy mess but it does drop out of suspension. With the banana wine there is one thing you end up doing and that is transferring the wine to different demijohns as it clears. There are several videos out there such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdlNzGyenmk

Cheers