Adding bitterness to pre-hopped extract

[JammyBStard]

I'm not sure if this is a Kit or an extract question but I thought it was more of a question for extract brewers because you probably started by tweaking kits.

I can't AG at the moment for technical reasons but I need to get my FV's full again. So I bought a two can Golden ale kit from Wilco's today to use as a base.
I fancy trying to bend it into a bit of a Harviestoun Bitter and Twisted clone. Or at least an inspired by Harviestoun Bitter and Twisted which I've been drinking lots of cask while working in Queensferry.
Bitter and twisted is a blond/Golden beer. I believe it's bittered with Hallertau Hersbrucker and finished with styrian goldings both of which I have in the Freezer.

My plan is to take the 23L kit and reduce it's final volume down to 20 L which should kick the OG up from 1.042 to 1.048
Boil the first can of extract in 10L of water with 25g of Hallertau Hersbrucker for 30 min
Stir in the second can and hill the heat.
Let it drop down to 80'c and add 50g of Styrian goldings
Let it sit for 10 min and then add 10L of cold water.
And then pitch when the right temp's hit.

I've never really tweaked a kit before so I thought I'd run it past you all.
Any sugestion or comment?
Would you use the kit yeast or another?

[BeerEagle]

That sounds like fun. Let us know how it goes.

[JammyBStard]

Well it's cooling in the fv. I'll pitch at 5am tomorrow on my way out to work!

[WalesAles]

Hello Jammy,
Will you be Dry Hopping This Brew at day 7? Or have you already got enough hops in there?
WA

Edit... Ignore this Jammy, I can see now that you are going for Bitterness!

[JammyBStard]

If I had any styrian left I would probably have thrown a handful in but I used up my last 50g. More bitterness is often best balanced with late hopping I find, but as I dont know what sort of IBU I'm working with from the kit I'm really just playing safe.
I'm guestimating the golden kit had about 30, which will have been increased a bit by concentrating the kit, I would guess about 40 at most. The HH is only an AA of about 4 so it won't add too much.
I think the end result will be about 50 IBU tops.
My very ruff rule of thumb is a gram of hops at flame out for every IBU gives a balanced beer.

[WalesAles]

Hello Jammy,
Thanks for the reply. I`ve been brewing kits since January and they have all turned out pretty good so far! Good luck I guess! If you were making a kit, why did you boil the first can in 10Lt water? What do you gain / impart to the Brew? I hope you don`t mind the questions but I just want to learn!
This is one I did earlier in the year
26/6/13 Simply Beer Kit Bitter.
30gr Styrian Hops boiled in 4Lt water 15 mins
250gr Brewing Sugar
500gr Medium Spraymalt
Brew to 20Lt OG 1040
Day 7 Dry Hop 25gr Crystal Hops. 80gr sugar to batch prime. FG 1010. 4.1% ABV.
Bottled 13/7/13. 2 weeks warm, 2 weeks outhouse. Tasted Fabulous after 2 weeks in the bottle, beautifully clear. This was such a simple and satisfying kit to brew and drink! I will be making this again but with different Hops. Can you see anything in my methodology that needs changing or just the fact that because it was so good why change it?
WA

[JammyBStard]

Hello Jammy,
Thanks for the reply. I`ve been brewing kits since January and they have all turned out pretty good so far! Good luck I guess! If you were making a kit, why did you boil the first can in 10Lt water?
What do you gain / impart to the Brew? I hope you don`t mind the questions but I just want to learn!

Why would I mind. I'm no expert but it was about 10L because of the size of my pot
I'm not sure of the chemestry behind it exactly, but my understanding is that boiling hops in wort as apposed to plain water means that the PH is lower which preserves the hop acids and that there are there are various protiens kicking around for the hop flavour stuff to stick to so you get a better hop profile. I've tried hop teas in the past and to my taste they are dissapointing and grassy.
Boiling the kit's prehopped extract will have changed the character of the kit too though but I don't think it will be a problem.

This is one I did earlier in the year
26/6/13 Simply Beer Kit Bitter.
30gr Styrian Hops boiled in 4Lt water 15 mins
250gr Brewing Sugar
500gr Medium Spraymalt
Brew to 20Lt OG 1040
Day 7 Dry Hop 25gr Crystal Hops. 80gr sugar to batch prime. FG 1010. 4.1% ABV.
Bottled 13/7/13. 2 weeks warm, 2 weeks outhouse. Tasted Fabulous after 2 weeks in the bottle, beautifully clear. This was such a simple and satisfying kit to brew and drink! I will be making this again but with different Hops. Can you see anything in my methodology that needs changing or just the fact that because it was so good why change it?
WA

Well I always say if it aint broke dont try and fix it, but perhaps try boiling your hops in with the Spraymalt and see if you can see any improvement.

I havn't really done much of this sort of thing I usuall AG or Extract.
If you like messing arround with hops and grain why not do some extract brews then at least you can control everything.
Maltmiller does a fine extract (when it's back in stock!) http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... at&catId=5

Good luck

[WalesAles]

Jammy,
Thanks for the info.I now have enough ammo to tell Mrs Ales that the 19Lt / 23Lt Brewpot that I`ve been watching on fleabay for 5 months must be purchased asap!
WA

[JammyBStard]

As your doctor I advise you to buy that as soon as possible!

[6470zzy]

Simply by reducing the volume of the brew you will have increased your hop bitterness. I would not recommend the boiling of the pre-bittered extract as you will end up loosing some of the hop profile.

Cheers

[chastuck]

I recently bought some 2-can beer kits from Wilco's myself and was also thinking about kit "enhancement". I plan to make the kits up to 4 gallons instead of 5 and add 500gm (or even possibly 1kg) of light spray dried malt to the fermenter. This should bring the OG up to about 1060. Raising the strength means I should probably also raise the hop input, so I was thinking of making a hop tea by boiling 25g of cascade hops in 2 litres of water and adding this to the fermenter before topping up to 4 gallons with cold water.

[6470zzy]

I recently bought some 2-can beer kits from Wilco's myself and was also thinking about kit "enhancement". I plan to make the kits up to 4 gallons instead of 5 and add 500gm (or even possibly 1kg) of light spray dried malt to the fermenter. This should bring the OG up to about 1060. Raising the strength means I should probably also raise the hop input, so I was thinking of making a hop tea by boiling 25g of cascade hops in 2 litres of water and adding this to the fermenter before topping up to 4 gallons with cold water.

Boil your hops with the spray malt rather than just the water, you will get a better result.

Cheers

[chastuck]

I recently bought some 2-can beer kits from Wilco's myself and was also thinking about kit "enhancement". I plan to make the kits up to 4 gallons instead of 5 and add 500gm (or even possibly 1kg) of light spray dried malt to the fermenter. This should bring the OG up to about 1060. Raising the strength means I should probably also raise the hop input, so I was thinking of making a hop tea by boiling 25g of cascade hops in 2 litres of water and adding this to the fermenter before topping up to 4 gallons with cold water.

Boil your hops with the spray malt rather than just the water, you will get a better result.

Cheers

Maybe..................., but I do not want to spoil the characteristics of the spray malt. Boiling it will make the colour darker. Also, the maltster will already have taken water salts into account when making the spray malt and boiling it might make affect the salts balance. I plan to use Asda smart price water as my brewing liquor, which is very low in salts and this should keep the salt balance of the malt extract in the cans and the spray malt at the right level. Besides which, the spray malt instructions do advise adding the powder to the fermenter.

[JammyBStard]

I would not recommend the boiling of the pre-bittered extract as you will end up loosing some of the hop profile.

Very true, as I said it will have changed the character of the kit but It was semi deliberate, I was boiling out the kits flavor/aroma a bit but replacing it with new hops. The hope been I would keep the bitterness of the kit but add in the flavors of the Hallertau and Styrian.
It's all a bit of a guestimate though.
On the other matter, I really think your better boiling hops in malt rather than water. I tried adding a hop tea in to the FV once and to me It just didn't taste quite like beer should. Why not Dry hop or try some http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... t&catId=25 even. Is the mineral contant of the water that crytical when your not mashing?

I'd love more time to experiment but time and space (and not destroying my liver) are against me.