DMS can you boil for less time?

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Cozzyb
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DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Cozzyb » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:26 pm

Hi all,

I am looking to add some Munich Malt and toasted 2-Row to a Pale Ale recipe where the fermentables will be DME, so I will only be adding about 100g of each of the grains. My pale ale recipe is normally a 15 minute boil, will I run into any issues after mashing for an hour to then only do a 15 minute boil, baring in mind the small amount of grain I will be adding (14% of the total grist).
Thanks for any advice.

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Jim
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:43 pm

Are you using hopped DME? I assume you must be if you usually only boil for 15 minutes.

I would guess you'll be fine with that length boil, though I've never tried it myself.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Cozzyb » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:45 pm

Jim wrote:Are you using hopped DME? I assume you must be if you usually only boil for 15 minutes.

I would guess you'll be fine with that length boil, though I've never tried it myself.
Actually no Jim, just hopping a bunch at 15 min say 25ish IBU and then the rest come in the 5 mins and then some 0min hops.

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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:08 am

Your boil is far too short in that case. You won't isomerise your alpha acids unless you boil at least some of the hops for 60 minutes.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by raiderman » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:59 am

Jim wrote:Your boil is far too short in that case. You won't isomerise your alpha acids unless you boil at least some of the hops for 60 minutes.
It depends how many he chucks in, altho I boil for 60m I frequently don't add hops until the last 15m but add lots to compensate for the reduced boil time and still produce upwards of 50 IBU - its the only way to get big citra!

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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:31 am

Regardless of how many hops you put in, the acids will not isomerise without a decent boil. You might taste the hop flavour but you won't have stable alpha acids dissolved in the beer (which is desirable according to all the brewing theory I've ever read).
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:14 am

Just to add; while late additions are highly desirable due to the fact that the flavour and aroma compounds don't get boiled away, they won't contribute a lot of bittering to the brew.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Cozzyb » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:05 pm

This seems to conflict what I have read recently tbh, a lot of American brewers are actually supporting the idea of making the vast majority of the IBU's from the last 15 mins, to provide a mellow smoother bittering. And I just tried the Saison I did which was hopped the same way as this and it tastes fine. The only issue I am having is can I get away with only boiling a partial mash wort for 15 mins.

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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:12 pm

I'm sure that people are managing to make good beer with short boils but I'd be very interested to know if any of them have had the actual IBU measured. It wouldn't surprise me if the IBU level was a lot less than they thought. Do you have any links to info about it CB?

Re your main question - I think you'll be fine.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:46 pm

Google found me some links. I have an open mind about this, though with a healthy degree of scepticism. :lol:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2012/08/25 ... il-tested/

http://beerandwinejournal.com/15-minute-pale-ale/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/short-b ... it-126624/

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who's actually done this and how the brews turned out.

I'm going to move this thread to 'extract brewing' as more extract brewers are likely to see it in there.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:14 pm

I'm not getting obsessed with this short boil carry on, honest. :^o

But I did find this learned discussion about late hop utilisation on this very forum - in 2008!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14771&p=178059&hili ... l+#p178059
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by Cozzyb » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:06 pm

Wow lots to read, thanks for looking into this Jim, I will take a read of this all over today and tomorrow and reply back then.

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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by 6470zzy » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:14 pm

You can save yourself the hour long boil if you simply use the hopped LME, much easier in my opinion.

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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by DaveyT » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:28 am

+ 1 for short boils with shedloads of hops.
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Re: DMS can you boil for less time?

Post by raiderman » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:19 pm

Jim wrote:I'm sure that people are managing to make good beer with short boils but I'd be very interested to know if any of them have had the actual IBU measured. It wouldn't surprise me if the IBU level was a lot less than they thought. Do you have any links to info about it CB?

Re your main question - I think you'll be fine.
being a totally unreconstructed brewer I wouldn't know how to measure IBU never mind think of doing it! But I think there is something in what you say. My big worry when I started getting all my bitterness from late additions was over bittering -something like Citra at 14% +AA doesn't in theory leave margin for error, even with adding ice at the end of the boil to bring the temp down quickly, I've aimed as high as 70 IBU, but overly bitter brews have never resulted, which suggests that what the GW calculator dials in at 70IBU comes out lower.

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