Pilsner Water Quality

[Aleman]

United utilities provides a 'comprehensive' water report for my area . . . But the figures are to general for me to use. I used Neil's service to take a reading each month of the important ions for brewing. Now I can take an alkalinity and calcium reading and make a very educated guess as to what the rest of the ions are likely to be. If I get a reading wildly different to what I already have (and it happens) I send it to Neil so that I build up a great idea of what is happening with the water.

[Pinto]

I knew it was regular lol

[ManseMasher]

Hats off to that! For a homebrewer though, a bit OTT perhaps? I for one would rather spend the money on ingredients, and trust that if the water coming out of my tap is good enough to drink, it will be fine to add stuff to it, boil it and enjoy the end result!

[Sadfield]

And what role, if any, does the grain bill play in these intricate calculations of important brewing ions?

[Aleman]

Hats off to that! For a homebrewer though, a bit OTT perhaps? I for one would rather spend the money on ingredients, and trust that if the water coming out of my tap is good enough to drink, it will be fine to add stuff to it, boil it and enjoy the end result!

The thing is that I can't trust that the water coming out of the tap is good enough to brew with, I know that it is good enough to drink as that is what the UU water report tells me. For the vast majority of average home brewers what comes out of the tap is good enough to make reasonable beer, unfortunately the variable nature of what UU supply to me will cause major issues with some of the beer styles I like to brew. The alkalinity can vary from 18 to 135mg/l depending on how wet or dry it's been, calcium can go from 20 to 75. If you are at all interested in consistency in brewing you have to take these things in to account. For the vast majority of home brewers who rarely brew the same recipe twice, then basic or no water treatment will probably be fine, but when you want to brew a repeat recipe with a style at one end of the spectrum and a water supply at the other end of the spectrum, then you have to consider water treatment.

The classic one is that described here, brewing a pilsner with 'hard' water, it's difficult to do . . . not impossible, and you may have to consider the style of pilsner you want to brew (Czech, Helles or Dortmunder).

The simple solution is to use a low alkalinity mineral water Like Ashbeck or Eden Falls, and add gypsum and calcium chloride in a 1:4 sulphate to chloride ratio aiming for a minimum calcium level of 60. The more complicated, and perhaps more rewarding, is learning how to alter what you have to suit what you want to brew, but accepting that you may have to brew something slightly different to the style you were intending. For most waters with a moderate alkalinity and hardness 'simple' acid adjustment using sulphuric and/or hydrochloric acids will be more than sufficient. Get into the extremes of hardness and then you have to look at things like Slaked lime treatment to reduce a, possibly significant, amount of the alkalinity, and then using acid treatment to bring the flavour ions into line with what the style needs.

And what role, if any, does the grain bill play in these intricate calculations of important brewing ions?

It can have a significant impact, but generally 'within a range' those effects can be accounted for. Martin Brungard will tell you that malt will supply more than enough calcium so you don't need to add calcium. I am aware of an experiment under way at the moment that shows that a significant amount of calcium is lost during the mash. Magnesium is a critical element for yeast growth and you should try and ensure a minimum of 5mg/l . . although the malt will supply significant amounts of this. The malt also adds significant amounts of potassium, although this is not necessarily a necessary brewing ion, but is useful if you want to increase alkalinity by using potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium, which has a negative impact on beer flavour in excess.

My Water trend

Code: Select all

             2015                                                                  2014
             3rd Sept  17th Jul  26th Jun  28th May  26th Mar  21st Feb  21st Jan  22nd Nov  28th Oct  11th Feb 
Calcium    -   30.6      27.6      24.5      23.1      17.8      20.6     14.8       30.8      35.7      24.3
Magnesium  -    6.4       5.1       4.3       4.0       3.0       3.3      2.1        6.9       8.3       3.1
Sodium     -   14.0      14.2      16.6      13.0      11.3      12.0      8.2       15.4      16.2      12.0  
Potassium  -    0.6       0.6       0.7       0.7       0.7       0.9     <0.5        0.6       1.0       0.7

Sulphate   -   59.0      43.7      50.3      44.1      33.3      37.3     27.4       50.6      68.2      42.8
Chloride   -   12.9      12.4      12.0      12.5      12.0      11.3      8.5       11.7      15.6      11.1
Phosphate  -    6.6       5.5       5.2      7.0        6.1       6.8      5.9        6.2       6.2       4.7
Nitrate    -    1.6       1.6       1.5       1.7       1.9       1.7      1.3        1.7       2.1       1.3

Alkalinity -   57.0      52.0      44.0      34.0      30.0      33.0     18.0       67.0      67.0      32.0  

.

I'm still waiting for a long hot summer when they switch to a borehole supply and the alkalinity and calcium shoot up

[JackF]

Your local aquarium shop can supply you with reverse osmosis (RO) water which is almost as naked as distilled - but at a fraction of the price of bottled water. Build your own mineral profile from there.

Hi Pinto, we have an RO system at home, but I've never thought of building up my own mineral profile. Since I'm just starting out, that might be too much chemistry right now, but how owul you go about tweaking the water? And what minerals do you think might be useful? I've used the RO water for winemaking for years and never questioned it, since I was told to use distilled water (too expensive - and heavy) from the beginning.

[Pinto]

Two ways of going - make the assumption that your mineral content after RO is null and add the necessary salts and acids,or take a further step and have Neil (wallybrew) test your RO water and see what's left before adding minerals.

Personally, I'd choose the latter for the cost vs accuracy.

[JackF]

Two ways of going - make the assumption that your mineral content after RO is null and add the necessary salts and acids,or take a further step and have Neil (wallybrew) test your RO water and see what's left before adding minerals.

Thanks Pinto (and wallybrew? ) My wife just told me that there are ready-made mineral compositions to be had out there. Do either of you have an opinion for me on these? RO water enhancement In principal, I mean. I'll obviously have to get a comp breakdown (already sent them an e-mail). Price vs. simplicity will definitely play a role.

[Aleman]

I personally think that going down the RO route is a blind alley . . . Generally the water coming out of my tap is pretty low in mineral content and frankly the beer made with it is Meh! Muddy flavours poor clarity, poor storage . . . . just poor.

There is no perfect mineral profile for any style of beer, so using RO and making up one of the published profiles again is a misguiding approach. . . those published profiles may well not actually have been used by the brewery.

Take 'Bitter' as a style, there were hundreds of different beers brewed in the UK called bitter and they had a huge range of flavours, many of which were down to the local water that was used. I feel that by removing everything and adding back stuff to create a 'prefect' profile we are homogenising beer flavour . . . sort of reducing it all down to a MacDonalds or a budweiser level.

[Sadfield]

Aleman. Whilst I agree with the tone of your post regarding homogenising beer flavour, I'm curious to your practical approach, given the poorness of your water. Do you brew with it untreated and accept is flaws? Or are you treating? And if so what are you basing your treatment on?

[Aleman]

I base my treatment around the flavours that I want to develop/emphasise/mute.

I have brewed with my water untreated and very few styles had good results, even those (Bohemian Pilsner) that it is supposed to be perfect for. I spent some time in the Czech republic and was able to assist at a craft brewery there, guess what? They don't brew with their soft water 'as is' either, but add calcium chloride and gypsum I've had reasonable results with wheat beers untreated as the yeast contributes so much flavour to the beer that treatment is almost unnecessary . . . I still prefer to add gypsum to 'dry' it out a bit. At the other extreme stouts require considerable treatment, I have been known to make 'Kalkwasser' and also dissolve calcium carbonate in 'carbonated' water to increase the alkalinity.

One thing I have done in the past, because I have a range of house beers, is to develop a profile for each style, by making up a series of mini mashes using different alkalinities and salt additions for my 'standard' grists. That enables me to know what my mash pH will be, then small batch brewing to determine what the flavour ions contribute. . . . that gives me 'standard' treatments for my house beers, and enough 'data' to have an educated guess at anything I brew as a 'guest' beer.

Fundamentally though I adjust the water so that the beer I brew I like, I don't have to brew to suit the palate of anyone else.

[Sadfield]

Cheers, Aleman. Refreshing to see a different approach. Having done some research into brewing Belgian styles, it becomes clear that, it is a case of brewers making what they have work for their beers. I started using a couple of profiles on Graham Wheelers calculator, on this site, and along with past experience, adapted them to now having a handful of profiles for varying styles.

[Ulsterman]

The simple solution is to use a low alkalinity mineral water Like Ashbeck or Eden Falls, and add gypsum and calcium chloride in a 1:4 sulphate to chloride ratio aiming for a minimum calcium level of 60

Aleman - as per your post above: Does the Ashbeck water have all the required info on the label to work out the quantity of sulphate to chloride ratio required? or is there a general rule of thumb used by you (or others) to achieve the calcium level of 60 as stated?

[orlando]

I am aware of an experiment under way at the moment that shows that a significant amount of calcium is lost during the mash.

Indeed, down from 148 to 72.3 ppm, by the time it got to the full boil volume it was down to 69.9. I am currently having an analysis of the post boil wort so I have an idea of what is left over for the yeast. With enough samples we might be able to discern a linear relationship to extrapolate from the starting figure. All this of course is at the nerdy end, granted, but if you are interested in consistency and have a beer that you really want to brew again and again it's necessary. The difference between beer, good beer and excellent beer pint after pint brew after brew is down to these things. It's not compulsory of course, in the words of Fleetwood Mac, "you can go your own way".

[Aleman]

The simple solution is to use a low alkalinity mineral water Like Ashbeck or Eden Falls, and add gypsum and calcium chloride in a 1:4 sulphate to chloride ratio aiming for a minimum calcium level of 60

Aleman - as per your post above: Does the Ashbeck water have all the required info on the label to work out the quantity of sulphate to chloride ratio required? or is there a general rule of thumb used by you (or others) to achieve the calcium level of 60 as stated?

Yes it does, the label on the side lists the important ions, calcium, magnesium and sodium along with sulphate chloride and bicarbonate (~alkalinity)

1g of calcium chloride per litre of liquor will add 272ppm of calcium and 480ppm chloride.
1g of calcium sulphate (gypsum) per litre of liquor will add 233ppm of calcium and 558ppm of sulphate.

I'll be honest and say that I have a simple spreadsheet that I use to determine the amount of calcium chloride and gypsum to use, although It is possible to do it with a calculator . . . or even a pencil and paper