decoction and step mashing

[filet o fish]

I am reading the gordon strong book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brewing-Better- ... 498&sr=8-1

and he seems very keen on decoctions and step mashes.

Anybody tried either of these with BIAB.

pulling a pan full of the mash and giving it a boil on the stove top seems reasonably straight forward, but i would take quite a lot of calculation and trail and error regarding the quantaties and temperatures.

stepping seems more straight forward but some how more worrying turning the gas on under the pan with the grain and voile in it.

interested to hear of anybodies experiences.

fof

[Bribie]

What size batch are you doing, full size (say 23L) or stovetop size?

[filet o fish]

i usually do recipes of either 23 or 25 litres.

I have a 20 litre pan, and a 33 litre pan either of which i can use.

[Blue Sky]

Try here... A Simple Single Decoction Mash for a Bohemian Pilsner - BIAB

[filet o fish]

interesting read. cheers.

[RdeV]

Yep filet, usually do at least one decoction in most of my lagers, protein rest to saccharification, while I'm not really that sold on a mashout decoction.
Start with the best floor- malted Pilsner malt you can afford and be prepared to experiment a bit is my advice. Initially its probably going to give you more noticeable effects with 100% base malt in, for example, Munich Helles, i.e. low- hopped/ malt forward beers, but I've also done them in Munich Dunkels, Schwartzbiers etc., often with loads of Munich malt as well.

[The_blue]

Try here... A Simple Single Decoction Mash for a Bohemian Pilsner - BIAB

Inseresting read. What i don't understand is why? What does this extra step do? Extra flavour or higher OG?

[RdeV]

Bluey, today decoction is really all about the flavours, but its also a traditional method which some maltsters would have us believe is not required with their truly wondrous, modern product lines, but I beg to differ, at least as far as pale lagers and pils malts are concerned. I've tried sacks and sacks of various pils malts, mashed with and then without decoction, those without decoction didn't really come close to the decocted flavours. Nice enough beers, but just missing certain flavour elements which elevate a good beer to a great one, while the ones I've done OK with in comps have all been decocted.
Braukaiser is an excellent read, and not just for decoction.

[simco999]

Two X double decoctions - one ok - one a disaster - Couldn't tell the difference - good luck!!

[The_blue]

Bluey, today decoction is really all about the flavours, but its also a traditional method which some maltsters would have us believe is not required with their truly wondrous, modern product lines, but I beg to differ, at least as far as pale lagers and pils malts are concerned. I've tried sacks and sacks of various pils malts, mashed with and then without decoction, those without decoction didn't really come close to the decocted flavours. Nice enough beers, but just missing certain flavour elements which elevate a good beer to a great one, while the ones I've done OK with in comps have all been decocted.
Braukaiser is an excellent read, and not just for decoction.

Great answer!


So basicly it's a case of dumping a load of the grain into a pan and boiling it then dumping it and the water back into the bag?

Is it worth doing for ales as well?


Also why not bring all the grain upto the boil at the end of the mash?

[RdeV]

Yeah, that's pretty much it, however you need to be careful with the quantity decocted. Once returned to the mash it raises the temperature to the next step and that can be hard to get just right the first time, so leave a little bit of space in there for fine- tuning top up water (hot or cold) and adjust if required. Once you've done a few you get a feel for the proportions, there's also some calculators out there for this sort of heat mixing thing.
Never really had the same positive results with ales TBH, however its been quite a while since I tried. If you were busting to do this, first try a 100% base malt decocted lager and go easy on the bitterness, would be my advice.
Well, I guess you could decoct up to boil and then lauter, that's an interesting take on it! FWIW I've not found the mashout decoction terribly helpful, particularly on its own, I get the feeling that most of the flavour action happens up to saccharification.
One golden rule of decoctions is never turn your back on it, when you come back it will have burned, sure as sh*t an' a goose. I'll sit there stirring it gently the whole time, it gets tedious but with a little bit of preparation (coffee/ cold bev, book, mag etc), utter boredom can be avoided. It only takes 20- odd minutes for a single, no biggie and usually worth the effort.

[The_blue]

I get the feeling that most of the flavour action happens up to saccharification.

So upto not during?

Bear in mind i've done 1 BIAB so far...

I didn't do anything before dropping the grain into water at 69c to hit the magic 65-66c.



What does the protein rest do?