BIAB What?

[bluezephyr]

I bought all my BIAB gear in February to get away from being disappointed with kits.

I don't want to enter competitions or give names to my beers, if it doesn't clear in the bottle and ends up a bit cloudy that's ok as long as it tastes good (to me) but I haven't had that problem yet.
Some treat making beer more like a science experiment, it doesn't have to be this way but as with all hobbies some people make do with less gear and others take it further, usually the end result is very comparable.

[PhilB]

Hi hop-head

Please note, I'm just trying to give you the information so you can decide here ... I completely agree with Eric's stance ...

Pay your money and take your choice.

... and I'm not trying to convince you either way Although it looks to me like you've already made your mind up

But, to address this point ...

doesn't BIAB either reduce your potential batch size, or double the size of pot required?

... because of various losses you need to end up with a certain volume at end of boil to get a (smaller) particular volume into your FV ... and because of evaporation during the boil, you need a greater volume at start of boil than you end up with at end of boil ... that's true whether you're BIAB or 3-vessel AG brewing (e.g. in my boiler, I need around 32 lts of wort at start of boil to get my 23 lts out) ... if you're BIAB-ing then when you take your grain out it will take wort out soaked into it (around 1 litre per kilo of grain) and the grain displaces liquor when you put it in at the start of the mash (around 0.75 lts per kilo of grain), so to BIAB you need a larger boiler to allow for that "extra headroom" (e.g. a (typical?) 5.5kg grain bill will need nearly 10 lts extra space, over and above your start of boil volume (say 32 lts) to end up with the right volume ... that's why many BIAB-ers will say 40 lts boiler is about minimum, 50 is better )

However that's if you are doing "standard" (no-sparge) BIAB-ing ... there are variants of BIAB to allow for smaller boilers ... mini-BIAB allows you to brew whatever volume you can make, with the size of boiler you have (there are plenty of people regularly brewing 10-11 lts brewlengths in 19 lts stockpots) ... and maxi-BIAB adds some techniques (including "tea-bag" dunk sparging of the grain in a separate pot/bucket, topping up the boil with sparged wort before and (possibly) during the wort, and (possibly) brewing a higher gravity wort to post boil dilute down to intended brewlength and intended OG, in the FV) to get significantly more wort out of a smaller boiler (there are plenty of people who regularly brew 23 lts brewlengths in 19 lts pots). Options which may be worth considering

The advantage of 3 vessel is you can cheaply add a bag to your setup and go BIAB if needs be.

... that's true, but of course, I could just as easily write that as .... if you cheaply go BIAB, you could always decide to "upgrade" to 3 vessel later, if you decide you want/need to

Cheers, PhilB

[Sadfield]

The advantage of 3 vessel is you can cheaply add a bag to your setup and go BIAB if needs be.

... that's true, but of course, I could just as easily write that as .... if you cheaply go BIAB, you could always decide to "upgrade" to 3 vessel later, if you decide you want/need to

Cheers, PhilB

I think that is the crux of the issue, as with any hobby, trying to pre-determine ambition and longevity of a pastime. I would be interested to know what percentage of BIABers move on to 3 vessel. To me it looks like a stepping stone, one which I took the decision to bypass, but I freely admit that may be prejudice due to limited knowledge. How does BIAB cope with high ABV beers such as RIS, Belgian Quads and Barley Wines?

[killer]

Hi chaps,

I'd throw in my two cents and point out that there are now a few micros (I know of at least one here in Paris) who brew "BIAB" with 500L braumeisters - I've tasted their beers and they are pretty good.

[PhilB]

Hi Sadfield

I think that is the crux of the issue, as with any hobby, trying to pre-determine ambition and longevity of a pastime.

+1 ... and I'm glad that that's hop-head's "problem"

I would be interested to know what percentage of BIABers move on to 3 vessel. To me it looks like a stepping stone, one which I took the decision to bypass

... just like kits may be a "stepping stone" to tweaked kits ... tweaked kits may be a "stepping stone" to extract brewing ... extract brewing may be a "stepping stone" to partial-mashing ... partial-mashing may be a "stepping stone" to AG (in whichever form you AG, BIAB or 3V) ... Yes, some people will make the "next step", whilst others will find a form of brewing that suits them and carry on doing it that way

I suppose if hop-head (and others) want to view BIAB as a "stepping stone" to 3V-AG then whether, how and when to make that "next step" (or whether to miss it out, like you did) is up to him (or them) to decide ... but when there's people like Bribie on here winning runners-up prizes in national competitions with maxi-BIAB brewed Pale Lagers (link) you'd have to wonder whether you'd be better off putting your time/money/effort into just getting better at brewing, whatever method you've decided to use to go about doing that

Cheers, PhilB

[AnthonyUK]

Hi chaps,

I'd throw in my two cents and point out that there are now a few micros (I know of at least one here in Paris) who brew "BIAB" with 500L braumeisters - I've tasted their beers and they are pretty good.

I'd be interested to hear how many people who buy the Braumeister system see it as a stepping-stone to 3V
The law of diminishing returns mean that I doubt I'd ever see a reason to move from BIAB to 3V.

[Sadfield]

Totally agree PhilB. Through not knowing any better when I was in Hop-heads situation, I saw BIAB as a stepping stone. This could well have been an erroneous viewpoint, that's why I'm curious as to whether or not it is the case throughout the wider brewing community. I don't doubt that it is the correct route for some people and a method that can produce excellent beer. I quickly dismissed it as it appeared limited in some of the style of beer it can produce effectively, and I do like an imperial stout. Again, I could well be wrong.

[jaberry]

There is no reason that you cannot brew the same styles with BIAB as 3v. Of course you can brew a RIS with a bag

http://howtobiab.com/biab-imperial-choc ... lon-batch/

[Sadfield]

There is no reason that you cannot brew the same styles with BIAB as 3v. Of course you can brew a RIS with a bag

http://howtobiab.com/biab-imperial-choc ... lon-batch/

Yeah, but that guy is using 2 vessels (15L/4 Gallon) to achieve that 2 gallon (7.5L) batch, and still struggled with sparging. Scale that up to a 20L batch and you need he'll need two 40L vessels and an extra pair of hands. To me that throws the BIAB space saving argument out the window. Also, isn't the benefit of BIAB, that it does away with the extra step of sparging?

I did ask if it can be done effectively, but surely scaling up to some of the bigger batches that some home brewers choose to brew would make 3 vessel the better option. Wouldn't it? Which gets back to 'stepping stones'.

[jaberry]

Yes he did a small sparge so wasn't a true no sparge BIAB but his pot of course was quite small so he did what would be classed as a Maxi-BIAB. Kettle size will of course affect the size of your brew with this method in the same way that the size of your mash tun will in 3v brewing. For comparison I've just run a quick calc on the BIABacus for a 10% beer. I have a 19 litre pot so the max brew length (ambient wort into FV) that I could achieve safely in one pot with no top up is 7.6 litres (which would be enough for me)

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If you want to see it as 'stepping stones' then that is fine. S'pose it all depends on what you want at the end. Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages but in the end they can both produce the same great beer so all the rest is semantics

[AnthonyUK]

You can make high gravity brews with BIAB but like any system the efficiency decreases as gravity increases.

[Redimpz]

Some years ago I was a kit brewer with aspirations to moving to 3V. The main issue against this was the set up costs so I was stuck. When BIAB appeared on the scene it made AG brewing suddenly affordable with a view to moving onto 3V as I bought bits of kit one piece at a time.
To be truthful that is really as far as it has got. I now use an old cool box as a tun without even altering it and I have invested in a 50l pot with a tap to replace my 15l pot. I am using this kit to "maxi" BIAB using a batch sparge. I have toyed with the idea of getting the other bits to go 3V but to be honest I am quite happy with things as they are.
In a nutshell, I am familiar with my kit and know how it all works, my beers come out clear, the hoppy ones are hoppy and the malty ones are malty, So I really don't see the need to invest further at the moment.

[timbo41]

Have followed this debate,and would like to add to my previous comment. I don't brew " technically" ,.I've found with my seven gallon boiler, and running off a gallon or so to avoid volume loss by grain displacement, at end of boil I get as near as damn it 5 gallon into fermenter. I add the run off back in around half hour into boil,after I've heated it a bit and used it to dunk sparge the bag.


My badly written point is...I've worked out my equipment. I could still 3v..just find biab easier