Pouring sweet liquor into boiler - Problem?

[TempTest]

Hello,

As part of my thoughts of going to AG I've been trying to work out a 'simple' set up. Essentially BIAB but because I want to do small batches (5L) I need a tidy way to insulate the liquor during the full volume mash. It seems a common means is to put a blanket over the kettle however I want a tidier solution to the problem. I've just had an idea of transferring to a different vessel for the mash. This means it's not 'true' BIAB (or at least not in the spirit of a single pot, despite being a full volume mash). The advantage to having the extra pot is if I need a little more volume I can sparge in the additional pot. Also, because the mash vessel needs to be larger (due to the grain volume) I can get a larger mash vessel than the boiling vessel which means - touch wood - I can put the boil vessel into the mash vessel for compact storage. Seems like an ideal to my requirements.

Simplistic approach (to get the idea):

1) Put strike amount of liquor into boil vessel and raise to strike temperature
2) While (1) is in progress measure grains and put them in a bag within the mash vessel
3) Pour strike water over grains - cover and leave for duration of mash

[OPTIONAL: If recipe calls for volumes greater than supported by the vessels:
[ 3a) Put sparge amount of liquor into boil vessel and raise to strike temperature
[ 3b) After mash complete add move bag to boil vessel for the short re-mash

4) Pour sweet liquor into boil vessel, bring the boil, complete hop schedule, etc.

[OPTIONAL: If recipe calls for volumes greater than supported by the vessels:
[ 4a) Add any additional water to boil vessel as evaporation occurs

5) Transfer boil vessel to kitchen sink filled with cold water to quickly cool
6) Pour wort into fermenter through a strainer to remove break (hot and cold) materials

I'm thinking of using:

1x Bergland 12 Litre stock pot (boil vessel)
1x Bergland 20.5 Litre thermo pot (mash vessel)

I'm hoping that given the size difference the former pot should fit inside the latter for storage.

My rationale for going for two pots is: Maximum diameter of pot supported on my kitchen hob is 30cm, which would be a 21 Ltr stock pot but I think it might struggle to boil this volume. Same maximum diameter of pot supported by kitchen sink for cooling of the wort. I do not have another means of cooling the wort (and do not want to no-chill). I want an insulated pot for mashing to hold a good temperature. The standard stock pot would require either constant heat adjustment which I want to avoid (I'd need to keep the grains/bag off of the base) or external insulation (which is not as tidy). I'd considered using the thermo pot throughout the entire process but realised a) this cannot be put on hob and b) it would be rubbish during the wort chilling stage because it would retain the temperature. As such a combination of the two seems to work for me.

I originally wanted to avoid fitting taps into the pots for liquid transfer as it's a) more costly, b) requires a pump or me to hold one pot above the other during the transfer and c) it's another thing that requires cleaning, to go wrong, etc. Due to the very small batch sizes I'll be more than comfortable lifting the vessels and pouring the contents between vessels.

Which leads to my question:

---> Is there any problem in pouring between vessels? I will do it in as controlled a manner as possible but none the less I should expect a degree of splashing/aeration. Would this ruin the process? Any solutions to this?

Thank you!

[alexlark]

Hi, I can't see a problem pouring/transferring between vessels. You also haven't got to worry about sanitation pre boil.

[Goulders]

Have you thought about Maxi-BIAB?

[TempTest]

Thanks for the replies.

alexlark: Yes, my main concern (I remembered the name later searching after making this post) was HSA (hot side aeration). It seems many people consider this a myth and even more so at home brewer scale. At 5 Ltr brew lengths I'm sure it'll be fine.

Goulders: I have and indeed my plan will potentially use Maxi-BIAB for the occasional brew length that exceeds the volume of the pots. However, even if I do leave some water out from the mash and sparge for later dilution it does not change the fact that I want to transfer to the thermo pot for the mash (this is not a volume issue but rather a temperature issue).

[f00b4r]

Have you considered just putting the pot in an oven set to around 70C for the mash? Lots of people find this to be a great way to hold mash temperature.

[Fil]

Sounds like your on the ball and have given thought to all the correct aspects. When it comes to it there are as many wasy to brew as there are brewers we all have our own ways of doing basically the same job. your suggestions seem pretty bang on imho..

f00b4r - never thought of that solution, pure genius

before reading f00b4r 's post i was going to suggest a large box and a bag of packing beans, pour in a inch or 2 of packing beans into the box pop the stockpot in and pour in more packing beans and close the box.

If using a thermopot i would add a drain valve its not that big of a job, and when doing my own i had my hand held very firmly from the lads in here every step of the way.. and once you have put a bottom drain in a thermopot you can build any stockpot up to your ideal brewpot standing on your head, its 90% confidence and 10% using the right tools

but to test out use a sauspan of water and see which methods at hand loose the least temp over 90 mins, bearing in mind the body of grain will also protect against temp loss so if you loose 2 degrees over 90 mins with a sausepan of water you can have confidence you will loose less with a mash pan of water with grain added.

[TempTest]

Thank you again for the replies.

foobar: Unfortunately I have an oven with a Gas Mark scale. Even Gas Mark 1 is 140degC. I don't see me being able to consistently find a solid 70degC (Gas Mark 0.5?) but otherwise a good suggestion.

Fil: Thanks for the suggestions. I might, as a matter of interest, do the experiment you suggested this weekend. As for the thermo pot - I think I'm going to avoid a tap... At 12 Ltr (see below) it's a small enough size that I can easily lift it and a tap just adds to the cleaning and maintenance schedule. The only advantage would be to avoid HSA but it seems that's not a problem, so why bother with the effort and expense?

As for my OP: It seems the vessels sizes I quoted will not be possible. I double (and triple ) checked my kitchen hob (for boiling) and sink (for cooling and cleaning) and both support a pot no larger than 30x30cm. As a result, the *maximum* Bergland stockpot for this size is 21 Ltr and the thermo pot for this size is 12 Ltr. Unfortunately this combination will not nest for storage and in order to fill my size requirements *and* nesting for storage I'd have to do something like 21 Ltr for stock pot (30x30cm) in which a 6 Ltr thermo pot (25x25cm) can be stored. That's a terrible combination and restricts me (in brewing) more than it assists me (in storage) so while I've yet to rule it out completely (and will not until I've placed an order) it's likely I'll have to give up the nesting attribute to all of this. (I know my stock pot is hard restricted to 21 Ltr 30x30cm as my hob cannot accommodate anything larger, nor boil a volume greater than 21 Ltr in any sensible amount of time, but it's *possible* I could get a larger thermo vessel and not clean it in the sink - But that is *really* something I want to avoid as I'd like *all* components of this 'stove pot' setup to be comfortably used in a small kitchen environment... The more difficult it is to use and clean the less likely I am to use it regularly!).

Thanks again!