Heating and Cooling the wort

Make grain beers with the absolute minimum of equipment. Discuss here.
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Meatymc
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Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:01 am

So I've done 3 BIAB brews and clearly my biggest time consuming issues are as above.

I'm frankly stuck with the heating side of things. I'm still working from a make shift kitchen whilst we redevelop the house, but even then, unless I create a new set-up in the garage (piping gas and water and providing a waste outlet) I'm more or less stuck and frankly not that bothered - whilst things heat up I can prepare everything else.

What I must try and do (albeit my make-shift effort on 2nd BIAB having worked - 3rd BIAB a wait and see) is cut down on the cooling time.

I've seen the numerous ways people have achieved good cooling/chilling results but they don't really work for me as things are so what do you think about the following?

Going to work out the displacement for putting the biggest possible sanitised vessel into the hot wort in my 33l pan. Into that vessel I'd put around 20% very cold tap water, top up with ice cubes and then add a couple of generous handfuls of salt. I understand the chemistry which will result in the overall temperature drop of this mix to below zero.

As this would be self-contained in the pan I could 'swirl' the 'water' within and the 'wort' outside the vessel and hopefully speed up the temperature drop. I know there will be those talking about 'exposure' to air/oxygen using this method but would that really make a massive difference?

Obviously need to source a suitable 'vessel' and would need a ready supply of ice - but for the ice, at £1 for 2KG from Tesco etc why bother doing it yourself.

If 3rd BIAB (Post tonight) comes away without any infection (as if!) I'll consider myself very lucky and I suppose shouldn't be thinking about short cuts on process but if I can fine-tune - why not? I've just cut my working week to 4 days so you could argue I've got the time but I've loads of other things to do.

I've done 42 years working without break by the way (Jesus - never really thought about it in that sense!!) and taken an appropriate salary cut if you think my 4 days sounds like a holiday. To be totally honest, this only came in after the New Year and it feels a bit weird - I'm having to tell work contacts who can't understand why I'm not around on Fridays - and, more to the point, aren't hanging around in certain hostelries - on a Friday!

Any thoughts welcome as usual.

PS Have you noticed my posts getting longer. The Laphroaig Quarter Cask will run out soon - I promise.

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Jocky
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Jocky » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:15 am

When I BIAB'd I would just put my pot in the bath with lots of cold water, occasionally stirring the cold water, and occasionally the wort too. These days I don't use my bath but I still stir the wort while cooling with an immersion chiller. So no worries from oxygenation there.

You can drop something into your wort to cool it - people do it - but it's a little dangerous as it's difficult to sanitise something like that, and I don't know whether you will have sufficient cooling power to drop all your wort down to pitching temperature. Mixing two liquids of the same volume but different temperatures will cause the resulting liquid to end up in the middle of the two original temperatures.

Does your situation stop you from using something like an immersion chiller? An alternative would be to brew to a shorter length, then cool a bit before adding ice to liquor back and finish your cooling.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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PhilB
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by PhilB » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:14 pm

Hi Meaty

Have you considered the no-chill cube option :?: :?

Sterilise and rinse your cube ... brew your wort (as normal) ... at the end of boil transfer your wort (as hot as possible) to the cube, squeeze out as much air as possible and seal up the cube ... roll the cube over so the hot wort touches all inner surfaces (pastuerising the insides) ... leave the cube to cool overnight (or for a couple of days, or weeks even) ... when it, and you, are ready to, transfer the wort to your (sterilised) FV and pitch your yeast ... clean and sterilise your cube (ready for next time) ...

It really is that simple, and it splits your brewday, so if you want to wait a few days until your yeast starter has taken off properly (yes, I've seen your "3rd BIAB" thread #-o ) but you want to get the hard work of mashing and boiling done with today ... then you can :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Meatymc
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:06 pm

I wasn't exactly keen on the idea Jocky - just mulling over ideas.

I do like the sound of the cube PhilB. Have read up on this before but for some reason never looked into it properly. It would be perfect for me plus I guess you could use some of the wort for the starter (running some off before 'cubing the remainder) - saving the need for DME?

Where would you get one from - I'm doing 3 gallon batches at the moment as it suits my set-up so something of around that size is what I'd need?

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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by PhilB » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:28 pm

Hi Meaty

Just type "water container" and/or "jerry can" into eBay and you should find plenty of options ... you should make sure that the one you choose is HDPE (to cope with the heat of the just finished boiling wort) and I'd say avoid ones with taps and stuff (the simpler, and easier to clean the better) ... from what I can see on there sizes look to be either 10, 20 or 25 lts (I haven't seen a 15 ltr option, yet) so either you'd go much larger than your 3 gal (20 lts, say) or a bit smaller :? ... I reckon I could get around 26.5-27 lts into my "25 ltr" one, so you may find a "10 ltr" one would get you 11.5-12 lts into it leaving the rest for your "real wort starter" :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Jocky
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Jocky » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:34 pm

I would certainly look to no chill in your circumstance.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by rpt » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:42 pm

I also no-chill. My 25L cube was about £7 on eBay.

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alexlark
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by alexlark » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:58 pm

I use a home made immersion chiller in my 33l pot. Best thing I did. Took me ages to cool it in the sink with ice and water. Now it takes 15-20 mins max.

VANDEEN

Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by VANDEEN » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:52 pm

Build an immersion chiller, with a long length of hose to a tap somewhere in the house & a long length back from it to a drain.

£20 for the copper, £10-£15 for a hose pipe or two, and £10 -£15 for the fittings and tap connector.

My effort here

Part 3, the wort chiller, & some questions

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73919

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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by WalesAles » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:05 am

PhilB wrote:Hi Meaty

Have you considered the no-chill cube option :?: :?

Sterilise and rinse your cube ... brew your wort (as normal) ... at the end of boil transfer your wort (as hot as possible) to the cube, squeeze out as much air as possible and seal up the cube ... roll the cube over so the hot wort touches all inner surfaces (pastuerising the insides) ... leave the cube to cool overnight (or for a couple of days, or weeks even) ... when it, and you, are ready to, transfer the wort to your (sterilised) FV and pitch your yeast ... clean and sterilise your cube (ready for next time) ...

It really is that simple

Cheers, PhilB
PhilB,
If you leave the cube to cool for a couple of days, or weeks even, and then put in your Yeast, where is the `required` 22deg coming from
for the Yeast pitching temp? #-o
Don`t laugh at this question, I`ve just come in off 12Hr nights and I am just finishing my 3rd pint of `Vanilla Stout` so it might be the Beer talking! :D #-o

WA

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Meatymc
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Meatymc » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:58 am

Cheers guys.

Still don't have a functioning kitchen as such and, with the other work going on to the house, going to be Spring before I can get the Utility up and running - well it's a Utility as far as the wife thinks but is actually going to be essentially a brew room. The cube is therefore the best option for me at the moment but longer term will be looking to up quantities and a chiller makes sense.

WA - I can use the brew fridge to get the wort back up to pitching temp. Been a god send since I set it up - all I need now is another bearing in mind it's going to be tied up for 5/6 weeks with the Pilsner which went in on Monday!!

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PhilB
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by PhilB » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:28 pm

Hi WA

Like Meaty says, you can get your wort to pitching temp in the cube by putting it in your brewfridge (or anywhere else at (around) the right temperature) and waiting :wink: ... and the cube can be very useful in trying out all those other "pitching temperature strategies" that you've heard about (because "the `required` 22deg" isn't the only option :? ) ... you could pitch warm and cool to fermentation temp, or pitch cool and allow to (free) rise to fermentation temp, too, with a lot less hassle/time-stress than when cooling "real-time" :?

I now have an immersion-chiller and a no-chill cube, and use them about as much as each other (at a guess) as the occasion suits :?

If you were to buy yourself one of those Malt Miller fresh-wort kits, of course, you'd get a free one (the one it comes in) :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Meatymc
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Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by Meatymc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:42 am

Ordered a couple of 20L's tonight so now just a question of which brew next!

polagon

Re: Heating and Cooling the wort

Post by polagon » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:54 pm

VANDEEN wrote:Build an immersion chiller, with a long length of hose to a tap somewhere in the house & a long length back from it to a drain.

£20 for the copper, £10-£15 for a hose pipe or two, and £10 -£15 for the fittings and tap connector.

My effort here

Part 3, the wort chiller, & some questions

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73919
You probably built a slightly bigger one (if needed) than me, but got myself a 'mini wort chiller' which isn't too mini for about £30pounds on Amazon and it works good for me.

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