Critique my process please

Make grain beers with the absolute minimum of equipment. Discuss here.
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by orlando » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:48 am

wolfenrook wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:13 pm

It's a long debated topic though, I even found an interesting thread right here on the topic viewtopic.php?t=16963.
At the risk of coming over all Harvey Sh1tstain ( :? ) it's worth following that link just to see Whorst's avatar again. :D Whatever happened to him?
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by wolfenrook » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:44 pm

orlando wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:48 am
At the risk of coming over all Harvey Sh1tstain ( :? ) it's worth following that link just to see Whorst's avatar again. :D Whatever happened to him?
It's rather hypnotic isn't it.... :lol:

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Meatymc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Just out of interest I've checked the sparge water gravity before adding to the kettle on my last 2 brews:

Kolsch - 4kg Bohemian Pilsner + 250g Vienna. Sparge 1016 - pre-boil 1035 - post boil 1045

IPA - 5kg Optic + 80g Wheat. Sparge 1020 - pre-boil 1040 - post-boil 1048.

I've actually increased the temp of the sparge water to 73C and dunk straight onto the grain - which i probably shouldn't be doing but still limited by equipment/facilities.

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Kev888 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:10 pm

People misuse the term sparge a lot IMO, but that aside there are all manner of methods employed to rinse wort from the grains, some better than others. Dunking isn't too bad for BIAB really, it is reasonably quick and easy (assuming modest grain quantities, anyway), which is fitting, and yet not too likely to result in undesirable pH or astringency.

Your 73C for the liquor is also pretty safe, especially as the grain (which will initially be at about mash temperature) will likely cool it down a little. Provided the combined grain and liquor doesn't get over around 76C during your dunk then thats fine.

Ideally you don't want the temperature to be much lower because then the enzymes aren't denatured, and the sugars aren't rinsed out quite so easily. But in home-brewing it is typically just a short time until the boiler brings the wort up temperature, and net bags are pretty free draining things anyway, so a few degrees lower aren't going to be critical (or probably even noticeable) with a dunk method.
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Meatymc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:53 pm

True Kev. Just read up Sparging and it's from the latin to sprinkle or scatter. What I do it sure ain't either of them!!

How about Suspendisse cursus velit vel instead :D

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Kev888 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:00 am

Heh, thats pretty good, as far as my minimal Latin goes anyway!

Though terminology is a changing beast, and i wasn't being critical in this case. After all, infusion rinsing is mostly now called batch sparging; to me, the term seems a poorer description of the process, but every home-brewer knows what it means so at least there isn't much confusion caused. Dunking is essentially infusion rinsing, just moving the grain to the liquor rather than the reverse, so not really any more undeserving of the term IMO.

But in the wider picture, it still hurts a bit to see 'any' forms of rinsing, such as (e.g.) bunging half a bucket of cold water over a bag of grain, being called sparging. Such methods aren't without merit, but are a world away from the care and time involved in real sparging techniques. To call them the same thing diminishes understanding of what sparging actually is, so I feel obliged wave the flag on occasion.
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by orlando » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:23 am

And we haven't even mentioned lautering. For me one of the main benefits of sparging/lautering is to separate the grains from the wort and leave behind some of the less desirable materials in the grain. In particular reducing the proteins that cause "haze" and preventing tannins and polyphenols from negatively effecting the eventual beer. For me it's all about the mash (not the bass). To continue the music theme, well a Hi-Fi analogy, if the "source" doesn't have the fidelity you are looking for you can't recover it further down the line/process.
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm

Finally something I have (or should that be had) knowledge of being a dedicated hi-fi buff in the late '70s/'80s. Any weak link in the deck/arm/cartridge/stylus/pre-amp/amp/cable/speakers brought everything down to that level.

There are far more limiting factors for me on the homebrew front whereas pre wife, kids et al, happily spent over £1700 on my then (1977) hi-fi set-up without a 2nd thought - wonder what you'd have to shell out nowadays for what was then very close to the best on the market

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by orlando » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:08 pm

5 figures for a decent Linn LP12 set up, before you add an amplifier and speakers of course. :lol:
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:19 pm

I opted for the Thorens TD 160 as opposed to the Linn Sondek (can't recall what the actual model was). Was spending that much had 3 sets of speakers set-up at home courtesy of the local hi-fi shop which I could switch between to choose which I preferred. Just had a quick look at the Thorens TD 907 which 'tips its head' to the TD 160 - that's ON OFFER at £10,199 with no arm etc. Jesus!!!!

Still have the sugdens amp somewhere!

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by guypettigrew » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:49 pm

andyisavinit wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:50 pm
I also skim off the hot break as it forms in an attempt to clear the wort even more.
I used to do this. Now I just stir it back in. Works fine and is less messy.

Guy

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by orlando » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:44 am

guypettigrew wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:49 pm
andyisavinit wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:50 pm
I also skim off the hot break as it forms in an attempt to clear the wort even more.
I used to do this. Now I just stir it back in. Works fine and is less messy.

Guy
For anything other than dark beers I do. Purely because I like clear beer and want to reduce proteinaceous material. I believe there may be properties in the scum that forms that is also undesirable for producing "clean" flavours. A chef will skim a stock he makes for similar reasons. The reason I don't bother skimming darker beers is because the flavours there are more complex and can disguise any detrimental affects. I also like a lovely creamy head on them and you need the proteins for that.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: No Stout About It (Porter)
Conditioning: 4 Hops To Heaven
Drinking: From Russia With Love (RIS), Peaches, Twist & Stout, I Am A Patriot Too, Reasons To Be Beerful (Part Three)

Up Next: With A Bitter Luck, Song For Keith
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by IPA » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:26 am

Meatymc wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:53 pm
True Kev. Just read up Sparging and it's from the latin to sprinkle or scatter. What I do it sure ain't either of them!!

How about Suspendisse cursus velit vel instead :D
It might have come from latin in the first place but we most probably got it from the French. The verb Asperger means to sprinkle something with water and like so many other French words ( Espagne etc) we dropped the S. After all ancient Italy was not a beer brewing country unlike northern France and the french speaking area of Belgium.
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Re: Critique my process please

Post by Meatymc » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:09 am

IPA wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:26 am


It might have come from latin in the first place but we most probably got it from the French. The verb Asperger means to sprinkle something with water and like so many other French words ( Espagne etc) we dropped the S. After all ancient Italy was not a beer brewing country unlike northern France and the french speaking area of Belgium.
Quite possible to come from either. Not sure about the suggestion that no beer 'brewing' in ancient Italy though. Many of the Legions preferred Beer to the more affluent wine drinkers (many of whom watered it down to a strength similar to beer in any case) with records going back to at least 97AD.

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Re: Critique my process please

Post by IPA » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:15 am

Meatymc wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:09 am
IPA wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:26 am


It might have come from latin in the first place but we most probably got it from the French. The verb Asperger means to sprinkle something with water and like so many other French words ( Espagne etc) we dropped the S. After all ancient Italy was not a beer brewing country unlike northern France and the french speaking area of Belgium.
Quite possible to come from either. Not sure about the suggestion that no beer 'brewing' in ancient Italy though. Many of the Legions preferred Beer to the more affluent wine drinkers (many of whom watered it down to a strength similar to beer in any case) with records going back to at least 97AD.
Correct but they were not sparging their grain in 97AD. Nor were we. I stand to be corrected but I believe that sparging in the British Isles started in Scotland. And with the Scots closeness to the French ( The auld alliance ) it would be probable that it came from the French who had previously taken it from the latin.
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1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"

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