Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Make grain beers with the absolute minimum of equipment. Discuss here.
WalesAles
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Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by WalesAles » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:07 pm

Hello Everyone,
Tried BIAB again 2wks ago, Total Failure.
Bass recipe from GW book.
Ingredients by `The Malt Miller`.
Followed `PhilB`s` BIAB method to the letter.
Just as the brew came to the boil, my induction heater failed, E7 showing on readout, (error 7).
Troubleshooting says it`s knackered, refund yesterday.
Took pot into kitchen, brought back to boil on gas hob, not a vigorous boil, more like medium boil.
Transferred to FV, OG 1056, watered down to 1042 for 17lts,(why do I only get 17lts when I am aiming
for 19lts?), added yeast (Windsor) at 22deg, put in Frt Room, covered FV with a big Duvet.
1 week later beer showing 1030, roused beer gently, added another pack of yeast (Windsor).
Today beer showing 1030, with a big pellicle on top.
Poured it down the drain.
Ordering same recipe from MM tomorrow and getting a new Induction Hob from somewhere, any Hob advice?
All help greatly appreciated

WA

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vacant
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by vacant » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:58 pm

Sorry to hear that.
WalesAles wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:07 pm
watered down to 1042
Boiled/bottled water/sanitised end of cold tap? Was the yeast rehydrated & lively (I know - I usually empty a pack straight in :oops: ).
I brew therefore I ... I .... forget

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by richard080561 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:16 pm

WalesAles wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:07 pm
Hello Everyone,
Tried BIAB again 2wks ago, Total Failure.
Bass recipe from GW book.
Ingredients by `The Malt Miller`.
Followed `PhilB`s` BIAB method to the letter.
Just as the brew came to the boil, my induction heater failed, E7 showing on readout, (error 7).
Troubleshooting says it`s knackered, refund yesterday.
Took pot into kitchen, brought back to boil on gas hob, not a vigorous boil, more like medium boil.
Transferred to FV, OG 1056, watered down to 1042 for 17lts,(why do I only get 17lts when I am aiming
for 19lts?
), added yeast (Windsor) at 22deg, put in Frt Room, covered FV with a big Duvet.
1 week later beer showing 1030, roused beer gently, added another pack of yeast (Windsor).
Today beer showing 1030, with a big pellicle on top.
Poured it down the drain.
Ordering same recipe from MM tomorrow and getting a new Induction Hob from somewhere, any Hob advice?
All help greatly appreciated

WA
Possibly because your mash isn't efficient as the recipe expected or may be your volume calibration is out
Richard M
Cardiff

Robwalkeragain
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by Robwalkeragain » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:31 pm

Windsor doesn’t utilize maltotriose so if you’re mashing fairly high or if you have hot patches it could be that your wort is nowhere near as fermentable as you need. Windsor really needs to be mashed at 62 or so.

Pellicle has probably formed as non fermented wort is full of good stuff for bacteria, and there isn’t enough alcohol to combat the usual low levels of bacteria.

Like others have said make sure your liquoring back water has been sterilised.

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by guypettigrew » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:59 pm

Sorry to hear you've lost a brew. It's always a bad feeling when a beer goes down the drain.

My guess, like RWA, is infection from liquoring back. I've had infected brews where the gravity hasn't dropped. Probably because the nasties have overwhelmed the yeast then made it a hostile environment even if more yeasties are added.

A quick calculation tells me you would have added 4 litres or so to get your 17 litres at 1.042 from a start of 1.056. Plenty of chance for infection.

If, on the other hand, you boiled your liquoring back water before adding it then some other source of infection must have creeped in.

Better luck next time.

Guy

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john luc
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by john luc » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:51 pm

lack of oxygen is often a reason why a beer does not finish out those last few points. Windsor is also a bitch and the company that produces it say to add Nottingham as well to help it finish out as it is a real lazy finisher. I just brewed an oatmeal stout 1045 and pitched windsor yeast,48 hours later added nottingham and got it to 1014. Lots of oxygen deffo
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by vacant » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:33 pm

john luc wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:51 pm
Lots of oxygen deffo
The manufacturer disagrees:

"Windsor yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The
yeast contains an adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and
unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is unnecessary
to aerate wort upon first use."

pdf datasheet
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by Brewedout » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:59 pm

I've just brewed a 1053 beer which was down to 1014 Friday night. This was mashed at 66C. I used a Mash paddle to oxygenate initially before pitching and then again 24hrs later. I can't see a big yeast producer like Danstar bothering to sell a duff product. I'd say unlikely to be the yeast.

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WalesAles
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by WalesAles » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:05 am

Thanks for the replies.
The Windsor yeast was recommended by Malt Miller.
It was not rehydrated.
Watering down water was from the tap.
The beer was aerated using a drill and plasterers whisk (very aerated).
Probably complacency on my part, forgot about water treatment, 1/2 a campden tab would have helped! #-o
Sanitation and cleanliness was not an issue (OCD).
Forgot that I had made this previous BIAB, last two pics show that I can make Beer! =D>
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75027
Ordering more stuff today from the MM.

WA

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by Meatymc » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:12 am

Bummer! As the others have said, sorry to hear you've had to bin it - 51st all-grain/BIAB into the fermenter yesterday having lost one in similar fashion to yours and another that I hoped would improve over time but hasn't. Still hurts!!!

Interesting that my 1st failure was the one and only time I used (Danstar) Nottingham but sure that's only a coincidence and, like you've mentioned, was more likely complacency on my part.

I don't normally pitch above 18C but that's just me. What temp was it in the front room?

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john luc
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by john luc » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm

vacant wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:33 pm
john luc wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:51 pm
Lots of oxygen deffo
The manufacturer disagrees:

"Windsor yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The
yeast contains an adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and
unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is unnecessary
to aerate wort upon first use."

pdf datasheet
That's interesting. When it comes to using wet yeast then the lack of oxygen is often the reason why the last few points don't get fermented.
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by vacant » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:53 pm

john luc wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm
When it comes to using wet yeast then the lack of oxygen is often the reason why the last few points don't get fermented.
True. I'm midway through stepping up a starter from a 6th generation slant of 1469, it's getting plenty of aeration.
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WalesAles
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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by WalesAles » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:28 pm

Meaty,
Remember this?
Re: My First and Last BIAB..........!

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:32 pm
Wales - had to re-organise my set-up tonight so had the bottle you sent me despite your instructions to hold for a week. Well, I'd happily pay for a pint of that in the local. A really good beer. It does mean I'm going to hold for a couple of weeks before reciprocating with my BIAB 2 but I'll post on my own thread on that now rather than hijack yours.

Cheers mate and well done - 1st BIAB attempt my arse!!! :D :D

This shows that I CAN do it! :D
Just get my act together and focus.

WA

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by Meatymc » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:12 pm

WA - 3 years ago - bloody hell.

I do remember now and also now remember (embarrassingly) I never returned the favour and sent you something of mine in return!

Next up is an attempt at a Baby Faced Assassin so I will send you one for comment. Not due to brew until a week on Saturday so won't be with you until mid-March but will defo' get you one over (unless its totally crap of course :wink:) Ping me a pm with your address please.

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Re: Total Failure!!! Where did I go wrong?........

Post by Robwalkeragain » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:42 pm

WalesAles wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:05 am
Thanks for the replies.
The Windsor yeast was recommended by Malt Miller.
It was not rehydrated.
Watering down water was from the tap.
The beer was aerated using a drill and plasterers whisk (very aerated).
Probably complacency on my part, forgot about water treatment, 1/2 a campden tab would have helped! #-o
Sanitation and cleanliness was not an issue (OCD).
Forgot that I had made this previous BIAB, last two pics show that I can make Beer! =D>
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75027
Ordering more stuff today from the MM.

WA
You may have just over aerated to be honest. When you “whisk” a beer then you’re mixing it not just with oxygen but all of the bacteria associated with the room too. There’s really no need to go nuts on oxygen for anything other than lager or high gravity beers, ours are transferred without significant aeration (actually took steps to reduce it as foaming was too high) and finish in 3-4 days without fail.

Other avenue i would check is all equipment coming into contact on the cold side - pipework, valves etc.

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