50 litre electric BIAB?

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Galena
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Galena » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:04 am

Cobnut wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:34 am
I use a Grainfather which is usually good for 23L batches with ease - less if you want to brew a really strong ale! - but I have also made 30L batches by creating a stronger than normal wort and liquoring back post boil. I heat my sparge water in a separate "tea boiler" (which used to be used for BIAB before I "upgraded" to the GF), so I simply heat up a larger volume of sparge water and once the boil is complete, add the extra to the GF and cool/transfer as normal, but I get a 30L batch.

Simples!

The calculation is quite straighforward too, although I use Brewfather which works it all out for you.
Helpful thanks, I use Brewfather but wasn't sure how to use the "Dilution" feature in the water adjustment, it does not seem to adjust for salts?
Is that what you are using or are you just making a larger batch that gives you more mash and sparge water in Brewfather?

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Cobnut
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Cobnut » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:52 am

Here's an example recipe:

https://share.brewfather.app/LZ7XVXfXzrtbpn

I always adjust the sparge water volume in my BF recipes; I add a couple of litres in the water calculation area and the salt additions get adjusted. This is to account for a bit of dead space below the tap in my sparge water heater and to enable me to add a bit more water if needed.

Never had an issue with this - as long as I remember!
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

Galena
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Posts: 81
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Location: Peak District Derbyshire, nearest breweries: Taddington, Whim, Peak Ales, Thornbridge, Buxton

Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Galena » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pm

Cobnut wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:52 am
Here's an example recipe:

https://share.brewfather.app/LZ7XVXfXzrtbpn

I always adjust the sparge water volume in my BF recipes; I add a couple of litres in the water calculation area and the salt additions get adjusted. This is to account for a bit of dead space below the tap in my sparge water heater and to enable me to add a bit more water if needed.

Never had an issue with this - as long as I remember!
Thanks, so are you using "Fermenter Top up? I edited your recipe to test and can't remember. I assume if you do that sufficient salts are added by BF in the mash and sparge to allow for the untreated source water top up?

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Cobnut
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Cobnut » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:50 pm

Galena wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pm
Thanks, so are you using "Fermenter Top up? I edited your recipe to test and can't remember. I assume if you do that sufficient salts are added by BF in the mash and sparge to allow for the untreated source water top up?
That's right, but IIRC I manually adjust the sparge water volume.
The recipe shows, say, 12L sparge water + 6L top-up (post boil), but I add a further 2L to give total sparge water (in the water calculation area) of 20L.
Without this adjustment, I think the water calculator doesn't account for the fermenter top-up, so you need to manually alter the sparge liquor volume.
So without manual adjustment it would show 12L in my example, but I correct it to 20L.
Although in this recipe, there were no water adjustments beyond my manual (at the time) CRS addition adjustments.
BF now includes use of CRS (AMS) so that will be handled automatically too now :)
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

Galena
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Posts: 81
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 7:42 pm
Location: Peak District Derbyshire, nearest breweries: Taddington, Whim, Peak Ales, Thornbridge, Buxton

Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Galena » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:59 pm

Cobnut wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:50 pm

That's right, but IIRC I manually adjust the sparge water volume.
The recipe shows, say, 12L sparge water + 6L top-up (post boil), but I add a further 2L to give total sparge water (in the water calculation area) of 20L.
Without this adjustment, I think the water calculator doesn't account for the fermenter top-up, so you need to manually alter the sparge liquor volume.
So without manual adjustment it would show 12L in my example, but I correct it to 20L.
Although in this recipe, there were no water adjustments beyond my manual (at the time) CRS addition adjustments.
BF now includes use of CRS (AMS) so that will be handled automatically too now :)
Thanks, that makes sense now. I use BF for all my water adjustments but I have to say my mash pH is nearly always 0.3 too high, I have tried to work out why and have tried sparge and no sparge on the calculator, added acid to take it below my desired pH and it is still high.

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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by MashBag » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:10 am

Cobnut wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:34 am
I use a Grainfather which is usually good for 23L batches with ease - less if you want to brew a really strong ale! - but I have also made 30L batches by creating a stronger than normal wort and liquoring back post boil. I heat my sparge water in a separate "tea boiler" (which used to be used for BIAB before I "upgraded" to the GF), so I simply heat up a larger volume of sparge water and once the boil is complete, add the extra to the GF and cool/transfer as normal, but I get a 30L batch.

Simples!

The calculation is quite straighforward too, although I use Brewfather which works it all out for you.
"liquoring back post boil" is a brilliant phrase much better than my "topping up the fv".

Curious... what is there to calculate, if you have a gauge on the fermenter?

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Cobnut
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Cobnut » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:55 am

Gravity and bitterness. Hop extraction is a function of boil duration, hop AA, amount of hop and wort gravity, but liquoring back (topping up) also changes both bitterness and gravity through simple dilution. I suppose you could argue that if you plan to make, say, a 1.055 wort with 44 IBU and then liquor back by 10%, it simply changes the bitterness and gravity by 10% to give you 1.050 and 40 IBU. Brewfather - and doubtless other brewing software/calculators - works this all out for you.
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

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MashBag
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by MashBag » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:27 am

If make the same recipe but with a little less water do you not get the same numbers after the 'liquoring back post boil' step?

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Cobnut
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Cobnut » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:09 pm

I don’t think so.

IIRC, the hop extraction in the boil is inversely proportional to the boil gravity. So if you use less water (before liquoring back), your boil gravity is higher meaning less hop extraction, I.e. less bitterness. So you ideally need to calculate based on your boil gravity, but then account for the liquoring back which will dilute the wort in all respects: gravity, bitterness and colour.
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

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MashBag
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by MashBag » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:59 pm

I have to confess to being more artisan than mathematician.
Last edited by MashBag on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cobnut
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Re: 50 litre electric BIAB?

Post by Cobnut » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:30 pm

Whatever floats your boat 👌
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

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