Home Brew Forum

Just had an email from Ron.Pattinson. He tells me the recipes in the book are for 6 US Gallons, 5 Imperial Gallons.
So IPA was correct in January 2014. Well done IPA .
Cheers all.

I've had this book a while now and have finally decided on a beer to try and make - 1890 Whitbread X Ale. It will either be the last brew of 2014 or the first brew of 2015
There are a few reasons i chose this beer, the main one is the grain bill can fit in my braumeister and being impatient hopefully it wont need a long maturation time. I also found it quite interesting that hops from the US and Germany were used in 1880. I thought i'd post how i'm going to brew it so all comments/advice welcome as i'd like to brew in the spirit of the historic beer but have taken a few shortcuts...

The Recipe calls for:

4800g Mild Malt
680g Pale Malt
907g No.2 Invert Sugar

90 Min Cluster 28g
60 Min Fuggle 57g
30 Min Spalter 35g

I've had to do a couple of substitutions as i could not find anyone selling Spalter hops so i'll be using Spalt Select instead. I've also only just realised i don't have enough Fuggle so i'll use around 37g of Fuggle and 20g of Golding.
The Invert sugar was another substitution as i didn't want to make my own but still wanted to use something close. While searching for idea's i came across this: http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-bre ... ers-invert which at the bottom suggest mixing Golden syrup and blackstrap (i'm assuming thats the US version of treacle). According to the handy calculater 887g of Golden syrup and 20g of treacle should get me something similar to no. 2 Invert.
I'll be using dry yeast and so the natural choice would be S-04 as i have seen it mentioned on occasion that its a dried version of a Whitbread yeast.

The book lists the mash schedule as:
Mash 1 (64.4C) 10.4L
Underlet (65.6C) 3.8L
Mash 2 (68.9C) 5.7L
Sparge (73.9C) 1.5L

As i'm using the Braumeister multi step mashes are what it does best, and has some similarities to the underlet method as the wort is
pumped from underneath the malt pipe (ok that similarity may be a bit tenuous but it makes me feel better as i'm trying to recreate a historic brew).
The schedule i've come up with is as follows
Step 1: 64C 60Mins - 30L Water
Step 2: 69C 20Mins
Step 3: 74C 10Mins
Sparge: 74C (Optional with the braumesiter but i always like to do it) - 8L Water
The underlet i figure will be the rise time between step 1 and step 2.

With a 90 Minute boil that should give me 25L of wort at 1.062 (including the sugar).

The book has the pitching temp of 15.6C. This seems pretty cool for a ale but is within the ideal temp range of 15-20 that fermentis lists for S-04. Unfortunately i can't do temperature controlled fermentation but with the cold weather i would normally struggle to keep it at the usual 18-20 anyway.
I'll probably follow my usual procedure from this point of ferment for 10-14 days and then bottle straight from primary as I don't really have the space for a long secondary that was probably the norm for this beer. I also may dry hop with a mix of spalt select and/or golding.

Well thats the plan any thoughts?

Aaah, I'm quite curious about that beer. I brewed one of the pales with Saaz and EKG and it was great. Is that enough hops? Spend your time with the invert as it's crucial.

Spalt Select is closer to Mittelfruh than to Spalter, it's much less harsh.

You can buy blackstrap molasses in health food shops in the uk as it different to treacle

http://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/me ... ApvF8P8HAQ

Just got a copy of this from Santa, so looking forward to reading in depth.

Well i did it and posted the brewday. I stuck with the treacle and spalt select hops as i had already got them so nothing to do now except see how it turns out. I definitely want to have a go at making my own brewers invert sugar to the various colours. The only thing putting me off is knowing when i'm at the right colour i know there are the SRM colour ranges but it would be good to see some pictures of the proper stuff for reference.

BrewerBen wrote:Well i did it and posted the brewday. I stuck with the treacle and spalt select hops as i had already got them so nothing to do now except see how it turns out. I definitely want to have a go at making my own brewers invert sugar to the various colours. The only thing putting me off is knowing when i'm at the right colour i know there are the SRM colour ranges but it would be good to see some pictures of the proper stuff for reference.

It really amazes me that with so much going on in the world of homebrewing (endless varieties of hops, yeasts and malts) that brewing sugars are so limited and it's up to us to play around and create the types ourselves. I don't know if it's because many see sugars as a bad thing (unlike the Belgians) but I would love to have the 4 different invert sugars.

I brewed the 1923 courage stout yesterday (1st brew of the year) and used a smidgeon of treacle to darken up some golden syrup. In a previous brew - the 1922 Camden S (it's in the book), I found using a dark German invert sugar (that I approximated to be like invert no 3) is a tad cloying. 2 pints and it's enough. However, it has a slight candflyfloss like flavour which I can only assume is the sugar. One thing I do know is that I'll brew this one again.
Like you, I would love to make my own invert sugars, it's just finding the time to do so. If you haven't seen this already, this has an alternate method to making the different invert sugars.

http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-bre ... ers-invert

Cheers

Jason

Thats the exact same blog i come across when searching for invert sugar, it was a good read and i used the calculator to get the golden syrup/treacle quantities.
I was initially tempted to use a mix of Belgian candi sugar for this but opted not too as i wondered if it might alter the flavor to be more like a Belgian blonde. I can't help but think that when adding sugar in large quantities different sugars would make quite a large difference in flavour. I think one difference is Belgian candi is made from sugarbeet and uk invert sugar is made from cane but don't quote me on that. I'm definitely now more interested in and open to adding sugar to a brew than i used to be and if i brew a recipe with sugar now i may as well use a sugar that could add some flavour/colour instead of the usual white sugar.
I'd quite like to brew a batch and split it adding a different sugar to each but there are so may beers i want to make i doubt i'll ever get round to it.

I to would love to be able to buy invert sugar .I know a company called Ragus make it in the uk,although maybe in large quantities ,would it not be possible for one of the homebrew shops to supply it in homebrew size amounts (I dont know if this is feasible or not?).

A post from some time ago on rons blog said
26 MAY 2009 AT 03:42
MentalDental said...
Ah Ron,

Due to your evil influence and, in particular, the Whitbread 1923 PA I have sourced some brewers sugar.

When I brewed the PA I used golden syrup because that's all I had. Since then I have spoken to Ragus (very helpful people). As Oblivious says they do not sell to homebrewers although their distributor will (but there is a one off joining fee of £100 because they are some weird co-operative). The invert No 1 costs about £26 per 25kg. Delivery free!

Anyway, Ragus have supplied me with a 25kg paid-for "sample" of invert No 1 (not delivery free )and I will be using this in some upcoming recipes. That 1923 PA again for sure. I will report back.

I split the 25kg sample with a member of my homebrew club which helped reduce the cost.

If their are any home brewers in the UK who would like some to try at cost (£1.68 kg exc postage) please feel free to contact me. I am in Wiltshire so, if you are local, we could arrange to avoid postage costs.

It has a distinct taste, certainly similar to golden syrup but with honey-ish undertones.

I dont know if this is still true

Ragus invert sugar 25kg blocks are hard to break up and quite sticky inside so I'm sure a nightmare to break down to smaller sizes.

ok didnt realise that probably explains it then pity

Though come to think of it I'm pretty sure the invert sugars are available as syrups too. Would still be in large sizes but would be easier to break down.

Yes, they tend to supply it by the ton I think

here's their old colour guide that pdtnc posted