Using a pub cask

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DeGarre
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Re: Using a pub cask

Post by DeGarre » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:07 pm

Egg white is also used in cooking to clear/clarify broth or stock.

critch

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by critch » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:59 pm

greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!

these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/

jim williams

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by jim williams » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:22 pm

Hi guys,
I made this blog several years ago, then never updated it. Still, it answers most of the questions in this thread regarding cask conditioning homebrew. You guys are lucky though. Why don't you just go down to your local and ask a few questions of the cellarman?

A few things to keep in mind if you look at the blog
-I don't use as much priming sugar anymore. I use 28g per pin.
-Conditioning is definitely yeast dependent. Or, I should say the amount of conditioning, and in turn the amount of fobbing you get. In my experience that also seems to affect how long the beer remains in good condition. I find that the more conditioning i get, the more fobbing and the more explosive the venting is, the beer tends to be better, BUT and this is a big BUT, the beer doesn't seem to keep as long! My favorite English yeast for bitter is WLP02. It drops fast in the cask, and produces perfect conditioning, but is never explosive at venting. I lose very little beer with it, and the beers tend to stay drinkable for around 4 weeks with a breather. WLP23 is almost the opposite. Explosive venting and the beer only keeps for 2 weeks max. Same with WLP001. Yes, maybe, its attenuating that extra little bit in cask to cause the explosion and oxygenating a little too much from losing beer at venting? Don't know. The actual conditioning in the beer remains the same, but the flavor goes downhill faster the more explosive the venting is. Its somehow related.

Anyway, here is the blog. Any questions, ask away!
http://caskaleathome.blogspot.com/

greenxpaddy

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by greenxpaddy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:20 pm

critch wrote:
greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!

these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/
Speaking as someone who has had two poppers in a household situation I think my advice is the best for those likely to be reading this post. If you have a hose down floor and refrigerated storage then yes your suggestion gives a better level of condition.

I've just done some calcs. See if you agree. 2 gravity points equals 1.65 vols. at cellar temp this is a little over what I have been told as the cask declared tolerance of 5psi. If the cask happens to rise to 18c the psi is nearly three times that.

I've done probably 100 or so casks and had two pop. That's better than 98%. However, the inconvenience to me means I now aim for 100% stability.

jim williams

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by jim williams » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:38 pm

greenxpaddy wrote:
critch wrote:
greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!

these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/
Speaking as someone who has had two poppers in a household situation I think my advice is the best for those likely to be reading this post. If you have a hose down floor and refrigerated storage then yes your suggestion gives a better level of condition.

I've just done some calcs. See if you agree. 2 gravity points equals 1.65 vols. at cellar temp this is a little over what I have been told as the cask declared tolerance of 5psi. If the cask happens to rise to 18c the psi is nearly three times that.

I've done probably 100 or so casks and had two pop. That's better than 98%. However, the inconvenience to me means I now aim for 100% stability.
Any ideas on why my casks don't last as long if I get explosive venting?


On your comments regarding when to rack, that is exactly what makes cask conditioning so rewarding, interesting and challenging! I gave up racking the beer early because my results were so inconsistent. Clearly you've got a great system and are really in tune with your yeast. Very cool.

Cheers

darkonnis

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by darkonnis » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:33 pm

What do you mean by it doesn't last as long? For all we know, you get a beer explosion and in your sorrow proceed to drink the rest of the cask :)

Could be that when it vents you get a backblast of oxygen filling the void.

Out of interest critch, on the off chance that you "miss" the timing and need to prime, how much do you prime by and how much finnings and isinglass do you add?

I have a cask from an old project that I wouldn't mind using but I just don't fancy the "lottery" with getting it wrong and knackering a load of beer and I'm holding off buying a pin to use at the local until I know I can get it right.

jim williams

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by jim williams » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:31 am

darkonnis wrote:What do you mean by it doesn't last as long? For all we know, you get a beer explosion and in your sorrow proceed to drink the rest of the cask :)

Could be that when it vents you get a backblast of oxygen filling the void.

Out of interest critch, on the off chance that you "miss" the timing and need to prime, how much do you prime by and how much finnings and isinglass do you add?

I have a cask from an old project that I wouldn't mind using but I just don't fancy the "lottery" with getting it wrong and knackering a load of beer and I'm holding off buying a pin to use at the local until I know I can get it right.
Yeah, its possible that its pulling in oxygen, but I doubt it. I tend to hard spile and/or hook up a breather as soon as venting slows down. Don't know what the issue is. It's not that big of a deal since I have a system down.

critch

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by critch » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:16 pm

they reason they pop most often is using the wrong shive or keystone, different makes take different ones (hell different brewery plastics(cypherco) batches take different shives! we use the rankin no.2 keystone and the brewery plastics 3 band shive(although the rankin evo band c is good too)theyll fit the majority of cyphers and steels we have. well done on not popping 98% percent , hope its the same rate when youve done over 30,000 like we have :wink:

the brewery plastics(cyphers) will take a lot more than a pitiful 5psi, steels and g.p.s. casks even more, the reason he says nearly flat is that he dosent want any more law suits like he had on the old company name!

what i always have done when prepping a cask is breach shive with a hard spile,
replace with a soft spile immeadiately,let it vent excess gas
leave to vent where you want it for two days,check softpeg for blockages, replace if blocked
tap,leave a further 24 hours and hardpeg till service,
soft peg during service, or remove hardpeg! test for clarity,if clear serve!
replace hardpeg inbetween sessions an a-cask a-vent is a useful tool as is a mason soft/hardpeg

greenxpaddy

Re: Using a pub cask

Post by greenxpaddy » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:13 pm

critch wrote:they reason they pop most often is using the wrong shive or keystone, different makes take different ones (hell different brewery plastics(cypherco) batches take different shives! we use the rankin no.2 keystone and the brewery plastics 3 band shive(although the rankin evo band c is good too)theyll fit the majority of cyphers and steels we have. well done on not popping 98%
It's a bloody nightmare. I got a load of shives and I noticed weeping. So got Rankin to send some samples . I've found the Green shives from Rankin the best but get this...all my casks are crusader stainless but the odd one the shive hole is marginally too small so have to use the old ones in those. Part of my problem is I don't fine until departure so I don't bang the shive *all* the way in as they can be a bugger to get off especially if you want to bang down the same one after fining.

So what trying to say is yes shive choice Is important. However, storing too warm once fully primed is also a problem. There are practical psi limits, aren't there Barney?

rowettbrew
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Re: Using a pub cask

Post by rowettbrew » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:42 pm

The only time I ever had a popper was due to an infection where the beer super attenuated and blew the shive. But within sane limits, a cask (with the right shive and keystone) will take a lot of pressure. Careful in hot weather though - that would worry me a bit...

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