Corny priming and pressure

[spanspoon]

I've just had a corny set up, 19l, regulator and co2 canister.

I filled this around 3 days ago and popped in 40g of priming sugar as I wished to naturally carb the beer.

I initially stuck 20psi in, released the pressure then again filled upto 20 psi.

I checked the beer the following day and the pressure was down to 5psi. I can't seem to find any leaks, I've sprayed the top of the corny with starsan and have no bubbles. I also left the keg sitting upside down for some time and there was nothing dripping from the lid.

From what I've read the beer will soak up the co2, it's not chilled, is this likely the case? Since I've primed what sort of psi could the yeasties take things to? Shall I keep the pressure at 20psi (top up each day)? Or will I over carbonate given that I primed the beer?

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I'm confused.

If you wish to naturally carbonate the beer why have you pressurised the keg to 20psi, or even pressurised it at all. I get that you may have just wanted to seal the lid on but I would have thought 2 psi would be plenty for that.

I force carb at 10psi, so I would think at 20psi the CO2 will be absorbed by the beer and hence the pressure drop.

I can't offer any good advice I'm afraid as I never prime a corny as you get too much sediment in the bottom and then get cloudy beer, unless you have shortened the dip tube. I don't see the point on priming a corny myself, they really weren't designed for it, force carbing works so much better.

[spanspoon]

I decided to naturally carbonate after reading a number of articles and the preference seemed to be for the aforementioned. I gave the initial hit of 30psi to crack up the lid and hopefully prevent leaks.

My concern, given that the psi has dropped without me relieving any pressure is there a leak or could the liquid absorb the co2 bringing levels from 30psi to 5psi overnight?

[kev93_10]

A number of articles recommended priming a cornie? Got any links?

You're the first person I've heard of doing this so if there's a number of articles I'm keen to see them.

L

[Jambo]

Apparently you get smaller bubbles with natural carb'ing, but
1 - As far as I can see you can't force carb and naturally carb in the same vessel at the same time - it's one or the other
2 - As someone has already said, your nice small bubbles will be offset by a load of sediment that will take at least half the keg to get rid of
3 - Cornies are a convenience thing, force carb, give up bottling and priming for life, then drink 19L of perfectly chilled, sediment free beer with the carbonation level you want from the first pint to the last

[spanspoon]

Ie http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... 3&t=116624
Many a forum runs along the same lines...pros and cons to both I guess.
I have been using mini kegs, with a co2 beer king tap, this also takes a feed from the bottom of a keg as would a corny so I figured I'd use a corny in a similar way. Fill, prime, seal, leave for two weeks then serve. The first half pint from my mini is a little cloudy but perfectly clear after that.

My logic for a corny, fill, prime, seal (cranking upto 30psi) to settle the o ring. Leave for two weeks and serve using co2/regulator.

I just followed the same logic as using a mini keg, certainly not wrong, could be better or could be worse than force carbing. I guess I'll find out!

[Deebee]

I do and always have primed my cornies.

I use around 3 g/l and pressurise in order to seal the lid and purge. After which i vent it out and let it go on its own.

My main reason is that i only have a soda stream cos cannister and am nowhere near a supplier of Co2 gas where i live. Secondly , despite having it explained on a number of occaisions i have never managed to work out exactly how to force carbonate.

the last reason is that i have 5 cornies that would need to be repressurised all the time and i only have one regulator:)

As for the cloudy pint i have t disagree. non of mu beer is cloudy other than maybe the first and last 250 ml. i have sufered from too much foam though due to incomplete fermentation or basically just overpriming so i am laying with the amount of priming sugar r keg. At present i am on around 35 for the 12 l but may look toreduce this a little more. I have tasted force carboinated beers from a corny and the same beer naturally carbonated and think there is most definately a taste difference between the two( in the favour of the naturaly carbed one)

[spanspoon]

Deebee

Thanks for that, put my mind at rest!

Looking forward to drawing my first pint from a corny! I've bottled some of this brew, its not quite carbed up fully yet but seeing as though it's only been in the bottle for about a week it's tasting good already!

I'll try to post a pic of hopefully a nice clean pint once it's conditioned!

[Deebee]

It is not unusual for me to have to vent the kegnif i do not drink from it for a while though. I imagine it continues fermenting the more complex sugars.

[Kev888]

Spanspoon, what you are doing seems reasonable to me. Cornies are designed to be used under pressure; there are a few lucky people who's cornies will seal without pressure but many don't do so reliably. In the past I tried priming them without any gas and whilst it could work I also had numerous leaks; adding some initial pressure to keep them sealed is highly advisable IMO.

The pressure will usually drop afterwards as some CO2 gets absorbed into the beer. It 'should' reach equilibrium when there is still some pressure but no longer enough to force any more gas into the beer; hopefully this will be at a level that still keeps the lid sealed. If you lose all pressure then its likely to be a leak, however a large drop in temperature can also do this; if chilled after gassing then the beer will absorb more gas and it could be enough to let the lid leak. The condition of your particular cornies will dictate what minimum pressures they will be reliable at.

Personally I find force carbonation easier and more reliable with cornies 'if' you have the facilities to keep the temperature reasonably constant, but if you don't then (for me anyway) priming can be easier to get right. The bubbles are said to be smaller with priming, although perception of this also depends on how you serve the beer; hand-pull beer engines for instance often have a sparkler that affects the creaminess, and some people have been known to use syringes as a 'pocket beer engine' to give more of a cask feel to ale. I personally don't have a problem with force carbonated beer 'if' the amount of carbonation is appropriate for the style and it is served appropriately, I think some of the negativity towards force carbonation arises from it being overdone. Unfortunately, I find that the pressure needed to reliably keep some of my own cornies sealed whilst dispensing gives a little more carbonation than I would wish in some styles, irrespective of whether they were primed or force carbonated initially. For those styles I've started using cornies just as conditioning/storing tanks and transferring the beer to bag-in-boxes/polypins for serving.

Another angle on this is if for some reason you need to follow CAMRA's opinion on what counts as real ale, since they don't accept any CO2 being forced into the beer - as would happen after sealing a corny with pressure or potentially when dispensing by it. If so, then cornies probably aren't the best choice IMO, there are other vessels that are purpose-designed to seal reliably with no pressure at all and give complete control via priming alone. I know how 'real' my ale is, and find other people's self-appointed definitions irrelevant, but there could be reasons why it matters to some home brewers, or CO2 may simply not be obtainable where they are.

Cheers
Kev