Alternative to bottling?

[rsw]

Hi,

Haven't posted on here for a long time, but have got quite a few all grain brews under my belt now, anyway...

I have always bottled my homebrew, but we now have two daughters (a 3 month old and a 2 year old) and have less time than we used to so I am looking for an easier way of storing and serving my beer. Although I'm pretty organised at cleaning and sanitising bottles its still quite time consuming and tedious.

I don't drink a large amount (generally 4 bottles a week, one mid week and one fri,sat & sun), so a batch lasts quite a while. One reason I do like bottling though is that I know the beer will last and not go off.

When I first started brewing with kits, I always liked the idea of being able to have a proper hand pulled pint at home - having moved house recently I now have a brick shed which I keep my beer stuff in and thought this could now be a possibility?

I have a fermentation fridge in the shed already, which (while not used for fermenting) could be used to store and serve from?

What would you suggest?

Richard

[alexlark]

If you're after a cheap solution I would say stick a cheap pressure barrel in the fridge. Maybe buy 2 and condition your next brew in the second. I done this last year when the rugby was on

Your other options are Corni or Crusader Sankey Keg. I now use 2 cheap pressure barrels to condition and serve from 2 Sankey kegs. As you mention "hand pulled pint" I would opt for Sankey as they are excellent for low pressures. You may find the lid on a Corni will not hold a seal under low pressure and as you don't drink that much the beer may not last.

Good luck in your quest!

[Dads_Ale]

As an alternative to corny kegs etc. I do the following

I have a beer engine set up in my shed and use 12.5ltre pressure barrels as the beer source. I have tried simply letting air in as the beer is drawn, which actually worked fine over a week, but now have a midget widget connected to supply just enough CO2 to dispense. Don't know how long it lasts as it worked so well it had all gone over a weekend. The advantage of the smaller PBs is that there is less free space and one can remain untouched whilst you drink the other, or you can just fill one and bottle the other half of a 23-25ltre brew.
I am also dabbling with bag in a box, which can also be connected to a beer engine, and am currently using 5 litre ones with a bit of extra support to enable them to cope with secondary fermentation. My current ones spent a week at room temp before being put in the brew fridge at 10c. Plenty of pressure build up and the bags didn't burst. The beer has come out fine if a bit less carbonated than the bottled version.

[killer]

You could consider mini-kegs with CO2 cartridges.
Each one contains 5L and once tapped (party tap deluxe) under CO2 (16g cartridges) I've have the beer stay fresh up to about 4 weeks.
They do have their down sides but I used this as a way to bring reasonable amounts of beer to work occasionally and I think it might be a reasonable compromise for what you want.
Filling them is a complete doddle - after sanitising say 4 kegs (20 min - wash and then a starsan) you just fill them up pop the bung in. The advantage is that you can do a mix of bottles/ minikegs (I used to do 13L bottles and 10L minikegs) in pretty good time.

[oakerspocus]

+1 for mini kegs and a tap.

[rpt]

Can you use a beer engine with a mini keg?

[Mr. Dripping]

Jigsaw bag-in-box. They have 3, 5, 10, & 20 litre versions.
I like them.....just go easy on priming sugar so they don't balloon. I've had beer keep well for around 2 months in these......have not tried a longer period.

[rsw]

Thanks for the replies.

I like the idea of the smaller capacity of the 5 litre minikegs.
I presume you mean this type of thing? http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/item2681.htm
I assume that you would do secondary in these? and that it should last well (until opened at least)?

They do have their down sides

What are the downsides? and what bits would I need (apart from the kegs themselves)

[roscoe]

..... goldfish technology this one, I've went round and round in circles on this and am back at...
yip bottles! even more so for the low volume drinker such as yourself.

19L cornie, thats 35 bottles work/4 .... 9 weeks to drink
--- expense, keeping at temperature, not portable, only one brew, need another, then another ... etc etc

5L minikeg, say 9 bottles, thats 2 weeks, you'll need a C02 tap thing if you are using it after opening for more than a day or so.
--- in reality, cleaning sanitising, filling, capping, it takes much the same time for me to do a 5L mini-keg as 9 bottles, the time/effort savings are marginal
(I do like these for a party or event or where a few pals are drinking together, thats' where they work)

bag in a box - utter crap, can't take any pressure, fine for wine or apple juice
the idea of the bag collapsing and not letting O2 in was attractive, but they just don't work for gases beer imho

another mid-way compromise is to acquire the bigger flip tops 750/1000ml bottles, then drink over 2 nights
thats the only minor tip over your current bottling

..... like yourself I'm wishing the 'bottling fairy' would visit, maybe once the kids are bigger you can pay them to bottle !

[Mr. Dripping]

The bags (polypins) are not "utter crap"
Granted they are not for highly carbonated Belgians or Wits, but they work well with English style ales which pretty much have enough carbonation retained after fermentation (especially if you can cool the beer prior to transfer). The vast majority of bottled beers are well over carbonated IMO.
To say they are not suitable for anything except wine or fruit juice just isn't right.

[roscoe]

I have tried and tried several bags and had no trouble filling them and first time it worked cos' I drank it and the temperature didn't change much. However, for me I don't have a cellar or keg room and once the storage temp rises C02 comes out of solution and thin bags expand popping out of the flimsy card box boxes. As it makes sense to chill to avoid carbonation loss, then its more than likely the storage/drinking temp will be higher, so it's going to expand. I would advise against over chilling for the filling process. My ales have been pre carbonated prior to filling the bags I wouldn't prime in the bags. Mini-kings and thicker more rigid containers do not have this issue. This chap seems to have a solution to issue ! http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/how-hig ... ndex3.html

My typical C02 would be 1.5-2.0 vol, however, for all my BIAB fills I expected this issue and used 1.25-1.5 trials and was woefully disappointed. Either use with super low <1vol co2 or keep temp constant after filling. I remain very unimpressed, I was hopeful they would have been an ideal solution for sipping 5L over two weeks solving the oxidisation/flat beer issue with basic mini-kegs.

If they were that good............. everyone would be raving about them

The bags (polypins) are not "utter crap"
Granted they are not for highly carbonated Belgians or Wits, but they work well with English style ales which pretty much have enough carbonation retained after fermentation (especially if you can cool the beer prior to transfer). The vast majority of bottled beers are well over carbonated IMO.
To say they are not suitable for anything except wine or fruit juice just isn't right.

[killer]

Thanks for the replies.

I like the idea of the smaller capacity of the 5 litre minikegs.
I presume you mean this type of thing? http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/item2681.htm
I assume that you would do secondary in these? and that it should last well (until opened at least)?

They do have their down sides

What are the downsides? and what bits would I need (apart from the kegs themselves)

The minikegs I bought don't have their own tap, though I don't see why you couldn't use the ones you show in the link - but... once opened the beer will go off in a couple of days unless you use a CO2 injection system. I bought a Party Star De Luxe direct from the manufacturer (http://www.fass-frisch.com/english/produktezapf.html). This one holds a CO2 bulb (the bulb lasts for about 1 - 2 5L kegs)

I've had beer stored up to 6-8 months in these and still taste fine once opened. I fill them much like I fill bottles - I bulk prime the beer solution in primary (or secondary) and then rack into the sanitised minikeg. I've seen recommendations for using reduced amounts of sugar for priming these but I've never had any issues with the normal amount of sugar.

The downsides... The CO2 bulbs are not that cheap (on average about a pound each). After a number of uses, the kegs can get a bit of crud build up on the lining of the opening, though if you take care are usually ok. I've used some of mine 6/7 times without problems. You will probably get a lot of foam for the first pint/ half pint if you pour your beer the minute after you open it. There is a small workaround for this... I found that tapping the keg, and then leaving it a fridge overnight reduced the amount of froth when pouring.

[Dads_Ale]

Just to show that with a bit of fettling the bag in a box can take secondary fermentation without releasing any pressure:



and they fit in the beer fridge:

[rpt]

Polypins are strong and can hold a reasonable amount of pressure. It's the bag in a box type that aren't so good for beer.

[roscoe]

LOL, nearly pee'd my pants laughing.... brilliant pictures and impressive box strengthening improvisation, I would have upped the brown tape to gaffer

Looks like your fridge is about to take off across the atlantic with Richard Branson under in his basket (ballon joke !)

Just to show that with a bit of fettling the bag in a box can take secondary fermentation without releasing any pressure:



and they fit in the beer fridge: