What do you UK mates think of these cask cheats?

[seymour]

I've been reading about ways to dispense Real Ale via beer engine/hand pump, both CAMRA-approved methods as well as numerous pragmatic homebrew workarounds.

This American homebrew club website published a cool article: Homebrewing and Serving Cask Ale. It contains some interesting tips and techniques, but it feels a little weird for me as an American to take advice from another American about English beer culture. For instance, here's a minor quibble: the author shares his Ordinary Bitter recipe containing Special Roast (an American specialty malt) and Special-B (a Belgian specialty malt) which I bet is tasty, but doesn't look like any authentic English Bitter recipe I've seen.

So, any UK Jim's Beer Kit members interested in reading this article and sharing your thoughts? I like to get my information from primary sources whenever possible.

Cheers,
-Seymour

[legion]

Hi Seymour,

It annoys me that in brewing classic styles Jamil uses special roast in lots of English beers when I can't buy the grain in the UK.

[seymour]

It annoys me that in brewing classic styles Jamil uses special roast in lots of English beers when I can't buy the grain in the UK.

I hear you. He's a freak for Victory Malt too, which is all-American.

But more to the point: do you serve your beer cask-conditioned? What do you think of this odd technique of inverting a corny keg for gravity dispense, for instance?

[legion]

I don't serve mine cask conditioned its not something I am particularly bothered about as I can go into a local pub and drink cask ale. However that is often a bit of a lottery as to whether the beer will be in good condition due to the short life of beer because of camra's stupid stance against cask breathers.

[micmacmoc]

I very much doubt there are that many hereabouts who bother because of cask ale's short shelf life....small cask owners or thirsty brewers with lots of mates aside! I love cask, its the life of great pubs here, long may it stay so! I wish you were here tonight...I had a Cornish oyster stout on cask...beautiful! Many small commercials use the odd US style but really don't produce the goods well enough. Just my opinion! There was also a keg of porter which was pretty good, from Newquay I think, with vanilla...nice porter. Was the vanilla in it a gimmick? Anyway both decent drinks...not sure the vanilla helped the porter.
The cask breather argument will continue until we are both in Valhalla!

[adeybambam]

I think the article contains good sound advice and will get you as close as possible to proper real ale without the 3 - 5 day shelf life that comes with exposing the beer to the air. The gravity dispense workaround also seems sensible. However, if you were to go down this route, it would be much better to obtain a beer engine with a swan neck so you can also play around with using a sparkler to obtain a thick creamy northern style head on your beer. It's not for everyone, but at least you can try it and draw your own conclusion.

[seymour]

...However, if you were to go down this route, it would be much better to obtain a beer engine with a swan neck so you can also play around with using a sparkler to obtain a thick creamy northern style head on your beer. It's not for everyone, but at least you can try it and draw your own conclusion.

Oh, it's for me, at least with certain beer styles, no doubt about it.

As luck has it, GAZ9053 helped me buy one from eBay UK, refurbished it, and shipped it. Supposed to arrive today! For he's a jolly good fellow...

[Kev888]

Views are definitely split on these things. With skilled cellar management, the graceful effects of air oxidising the beer (at least initially) are seen by many as being part of the traditional cask character. I do agree with that, though I don't in all honesty find it hugely special; perhaps I've rarely been to a pub with suitably good cellarmanship during the moments it peaks. I certainly have been to the pub when its gone too far...

Therin lies the key problem - situations where turnover is too slow for even a small cask to be consumed quickly. As the process continues it isn't long before the beer gets badly oxidised, and (traditional or otherwise) I neither want to drink excessively oxidised beer, or pay inflated prices to cover regular wastage of spoiled beer. The cask breather doesn't allow the traditional (if possibly questionable) affects of air initially, but that comes with the benefit of slowing oxidation noticeably and making casks viable and more consistent in more situations - without over-carbonating the beer either.

So where situations make the purist's way impractical I personally see them as a very good and practical answer. I would like to see quality cask beer served in more smaller outlets and at more consistent quality, and I consider those aims to be more important than perhaps notions of tradition or rigidly maintaining stances, where these would have a detrimental affect on quality beer or even its availability. I don't use casks myself now but I did try plastic ones for a while; I would not entertain using them at home without a shared CO2 breather (or an improvised one) 'unless' you only have one cask tapped at once and/or drink them up quickly.

However, breathers still allow the beer to go flatter than even cask ale should ideally be IMO - though the beer engine can wake it up a bit if you serve through one, I do like 'a little' condition. So for the homebrewer with slow turnover or several beers on tap at once, I've concluded one needs 'some' pressure above atmospheric to maintain carbonation at acceptable levels, and to keep out as much oxygen as possible. Therefore stainless kegs at very low pressure are my preferred solution from the perspective of achieving and crucially also preserving beer in good condition until I've consumed it.

Thankfully as a home-brewer I'm free to deal with the issues specific to my own circumstances and adopt my own preferred approaches for what I feel are optimum results. Others may have (and I hope do) have their own preferences, but anyone claiming that intrinsically casks must equal decent real ale and kegs must equal unreal fizzy cack have arrived at a demarcation which mirrors no level of reality I've experienced. IMO both can be used for high quality and abundantly real ale and beer, according to your own preference. (and both can contain complete rubbish too, but thats another story!).

Cheers
Kev

EDIT: have fun with the beer engine!

[GAZ9053]

...However, if you were to go down this route, it would be much better to obtain a beer engine with a swan neck so you can also play around with using a sparkler to obtain a thick creamy northern style head on your beer. It's not for everyone, but at least you can try it and draw your own conclusion.

Oh, it's for me, at least with certain beer styles, no doubt about it.

As luck has it, GAZ9053 helped me buy one from eBay UK, refurbished it, and shipped it. Supposed to arrive today! For he's a jolly good fellow...

Has it arrived yet? I dont follow camra rules, I have a sankey keg to serve through my beer engine with just a top up of co2 to replace volume taken,

[seymour]

Has it arrived yet?...

Not yet, but it's only 8 AM here. High hopes! I plan to spend some time tomorrow assembling the bits and bobs, and will try to post some photos here.

...I dont follow camra rules, I have a sankey keg to serve through my beer engine with just a top up of co2 to replace volume taken

Great idea. With just a regular CO2 tank and regulator? Sankey kegs are 15 gallon half-barrels, right? Do you brew that much at a time?

[GAZ9053]

I've got 20l crusader kegs yes with same set up as you say.

[Mr. Dripping]

Might I suggest looking at polypins / bag in box.
The 'new breed' of these seem to give 3-4 weeks without oxidation issue and you don't have the issues of co2.
Lots of people are getting on very well with these (myself included). I like the fact that I can buy 3, 5, 10 or 20 litre sizes and can package to suit the situation with the rest going in a corny or bottles.

[GAZ9053]

I also use polypins / bags they work great too.

[seymour]

Might I suggest looking at polypins / bag in box.
The 'new breed' of these seem to give 3-4 weeks without oxidation issue and you don't have the issues of co2.
Lots of people are getting on very well with these (myself included). I like the fact that I can buy 3, 5, 10 or 20 litre sizes and can package to suit the situation with the rest going in a corny or bottles.

Do you have the ability to share pictures? I'm not sure how to visualize that setup.

[GAZ9053]

tube straight from polypin tap to beer engine