Triple Gas Regulator?

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greengrass

Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by greengrass » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:51 pm

I am thinking of doing a kegorator with a 3 corney keg set up, what I want to know is, what to use for regulating the gas to 3 different pressures, is there something which has 3 dials and allow you to set different pressures. I have seen a dual regulator but not a triple, just doing a wish list and want to price things up before I go ahead.
Thanks in advance.
Greengrass

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Haydnexport » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:03 pm

I use one of these (this ig a google image not mine but exactly the same) It's a cornelius keg management board
corny gas.JPG

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by f00b4r » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:10 pm

Haydnexport wrote:I use one of these (this ig a google image not mine but exactly the same) It's a cornelius keg management board
corny gas.JPG
Just be aware that they are not 3 primary regulators, you have to cascade the three pressures to equal or less on each.
The Britvic style ones are totally independent but you normally only get 3 take offs, although I have seen some before with more (essentially built in manifolds).
Both work but just something to be aware of.

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Heron1952 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:54 pm

Not sure I understand exactly what foobar is saying.
I have one, essentially as I understand it, they consist of a primary regulator which sets the pressure on the first gauge and outlet.
This is often set to say 20 psi for carbonation. This can then be stepped down for the next gauge and single outlet. The 20psi, still from the primary, then continues on to the last gauge and the final 4 outlets which can again have an independent pressure. WHICH COULD EVEN BE HIGHER, than the first secondary gauge and single outlet. In effect you can run three separate psi pressures, one of which has 1 outlet, another has 1 outlet and the last has 4 outlets.
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greengrass

Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by greengrass » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:12 pm

Thanks, I am still trying to get my head around the whole gas pressure thing.

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by PeeBee » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:36 pm

I posted this on another thread, but seems like it might be welcome reposted here? I do need to post it somewhere useful here...


I wrote the following on another forum site, so have cut and pasted it here. Might provide useful information?
CO2 Management Primer

I've written this as a "primer" to Carbon Dioxide (CO2) management for kegs of home-brew. Its for those starting out or those moving up from small CO2 "bulbs" or other small cylinder arrangements (like "sodastream" cylinders). CO2 management can be considered in three sections: The CO2 bottle, the "regulator" and the (optional) output "manifold".

First you have your CO2 bottle which is often the 6.35Kg "pub" bottle. 6.35Kg is covenient, but don't be fazed by size: With CO2 the management systems are identical as long as you have the correct attachments (you can use "sodastream" type bottles if you don't wont big "pub" bottles). Handling big cylinders is no different from small cylinders, but big cylinders have the potential to do more damage if you do anything daft! Some brewers use fire extinguishes but these might have to be modified or used upside-down ... all a subject for another thread.

Next you have your "regulator" which drops the bottle pressure from about 900psi (more later) to what is often about 60psi (4bar) or less. The regulator is commonly variable so you can adjust the output pressure from, say, the 60psi down to 7 or 8psi (1/2bar). Down to 7psi if you're lucky - the common (cheap) regulators are far too imprecise to get lower pressures and you can be happy with 10psi (cue howls of protest from people who think they can get less). The "cheap" regulators are usually what is known as "single stage"; you can also get much more accuracy with "dual stage" regulators which internally have a fixed output passed (also internally) to another variable regulator mechanism (these are common in "aquarium" circles but much more expensive).

Thirdly (optional if you only attach one keg at a time) you have your "manifold" which splits the output to two or more kegs. These come in three forms:
1) Simple: Just a tube with one input (from the regulator) and multiple outlets (to the kegs). The outlets commonly have isolation taps and "check valves" so the gas can come out but it and anything else can't go back in. All outlets have the same pressure.
2) Complex: The manifold also has smaller (secondary) regulators allowing each output (or group of outputs) to have their own set pressure lower than the main (primary) regulator. These are less common.
3) Compound: Like "simple" but the input ("primary") regulator is possibly fixed pressure (2-5bar). Each output is then terminated with its own small "secondary" regulator. This is the method I favour as you have complete control over the output for that line (some "secondary" regulators - e.g. LPG regulators - can work at fractions of a psi). It can also be an expensive and complicated method. The use of "secondary" regulators effectively provides a "dual stage" set up mentioned above. IMPORTANT: "Secondary" regulators can't handle the pressure from a CO2 cylinder, hence the "primary" regulator.

Main (attached directly to the bottle) regulators commonly (not all) have two pressure guages: One displays the low pressure side and allows you to set a variable regulator and the other displays the high pressure side (the pressure in the bottle). The mistake is to think the high pressure guage tells you how full the bottle is; it doesn't! Carbon Dioxide has the useful property of being liquid in the cylinder. Pressure in the cylinder keeps the CO2 from boiling into a gas, that pressure being about 900psi (it varies a bit depending on ambient temperature). So as long as there is liquid in the bottle the pressure stays about 900psi. If there is no liquid the cylinder is empty. If the guage is reading 7-800psi or less get a refill quick, very quick, because you are running on fumes!

One other gotcha is some very cheap "Chinese" cylinder regulator imports (usually for aquariums). These "regulate" the flow with a needle valve. They do not regulate the pressure. Connected to a keg at static pressure they will quickly try to pressurise the keg to cylinder pressure (900psi). Boom!

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Heron1952 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:49 pm

It's not as complicated as it looks !!!
Plenty on the web and here on Jims.
This is a US site but on first glance seems to go through the whole Kegerator set up issues.
http://www.draft-beer-made-easy.com/
To put CO2 gas regulation at it basics.
Gas Bottle is at very high pressure, potentially lethal if the primary regulator not there!!!
The primary regulator steps this pressure psi or bar to a reasonable pressure say 20psi to force carbonate a keg. This would likely be too high for serving. But if psi was then turned down, this primary regulator could be used for dispensing.
But that for most of us would just be for one keg or cornie.
Now a secondary regulator, and there could be many, one of these for any number of kegs, will step down the primary regulator pressure to whatever you need for each cornie or keg. EG perhaps 10psi for a fizzy lager or just 2psi top blanket pressure to not over carbonate a traditional British bitter ale.
aka Rhys

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Fil » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:13 pm

keep an eye on ebay as 3x inline primary regs often appear,

mine came from another source..
Image
you can probably make out the Britvic brand name on the lable and they often appear on ebay with this or cocacola in the ebay listing. as they are usually/originally used to feed the syrup mixing/carbonating equipment used in bars for soft drinks.

and generally go for circa £50+ tho ive not been keeping much of an eye on them lately..
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Heron1952 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:45 pm

Yes they are robust and give a three different psi output as does the original board, bu seriously more industrial grown up secondary's!!!!!
aka Rhys

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Fil » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:32 am

Heron1952 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:45 pm
Yes they are robust and give a three different psi output as does the original board, bu seriously more industrial grown up secondary's!!!!!
dont quite follow, but one 'feature' of the 3x inline primary type i have that is common with the old welders reg i used before, is that fine tuning to a low pressure level suitable for a low/moderate conditioned beer with a short feed to its tap is a NIGHTMARE, the coarse gradient of the dial 2/4 sometimes even 5psi per mark isnt that helpful.

As i have no experience with 2ndary regs i cant comment on how easy they are to set in the 2-6psi range, but i suspect they are not the pita my 3x primary jobby can be..
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

greengrass

Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by greengrass » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:12 am

Thanks once again all,I will no doubt have to re read these posts to take the info in, interesting the article on gas management, I will trawl e-bay and have a look at what is around.
Greengrass

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Heron1952 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:11 am

Fil wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:32 am
Heron1952 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:45 pm
Yes they are robust and give a three different psi output as does the original board, bu seriously more industrial grown up secondary's!!!!!
dont quite follow, but one 'feature' of the 3x inline primary type i have that is common with the old welders reg i used before, is that fine tuning to a low pressure level suitable for a low/moderate conditioned beer with a short feed to its tap is a NIGHTMARE, the coarse gradient of the dial 2/4 sometimes even 5psi per mark isnt that helpful.

As i have no experience with 2ndary regs i cant comment on how easy they are to set in the 2-6psi range, but i suspect they are not the pita my 3x primary jobby can be..
Ah yes, I see, hadn't realised the Britvic boards were just three primaries. In that case I would definitely prefer the board Haydenexport has where the first dial and output is the primary.
aka Rhys

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by f00b4r » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:54 am

Heron1952 wrote:
Fil wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:32 am
Heron1952 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:45 pm
Yes they are robust and give a three different psi output as does the original board, bu seriously more industrial grown up secondary's!!!!!
dont quite follow, but one 'feature' of the 3x inline primary type i have that is common with the old welders reg i used before, is that fine tuning to a low pressure level suitable for a low/moderate conditioned beer with a short feed to its tap is a NIGHTMARE, the coarse gradient of the dial 2/4 sometimes even 5psi per mark isnt that helpful.

As i have no experience with 2ndary regs i cant comment on how easy they are to set in the 2-6psi range, but i suspect they are not the pita my 3x primary jobby can be..
Ah yes, I see, hadn't realised the Britvic boards were just three primaries. In that case I would definitely prefer the board Haydenexport has where the first dial and output is the primary.
The gauges on the Britvic boards vary, the ones on mine have a good range on but I have seen ones that are next to useless.

Are you saying on the Cola boards that all the the settings are totally independent of the others (I was always told that they "cascaded" so it wasn't possible to go to a higher pressure than the previously set one (I've never tried it myself on my board).

If you run manifolds it is also easy to add finer gauges on them (eg this is the one that "Barneey" created):

Image

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:33 am

Fil wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:32 am
Heron1952 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:45 pm
Yes they are robust and give a three different psi output as does the original board, bu seriously more industrial grown up secondary's!!!!!
dont quite follow, but one 'feature' of the 3x inline primary type i have that is common with the old welders reg i used before, is that fine tuning to a low pressure level suitable for a low/moderate conditioned beer with a short feed to its tap is a NIGHTMARE, the coarse gradient of the dial 2/4 sometimes even 5psi per mark isnt that helpful.

As i have no experience with 2ndary regs i cant comment on how easy they are to set in the 2-6psi range, but i suspect they are not the pita my 3x primary jobby can be..
Hi Fil.
It isn't the coarse gradient of the dial that confounds you. It's the entire mechanism. At one end you are expecting it to hold back the output from an Ariane 5, and at the other end a gnats' fart. Just not going to happen. In fact I find a lot of "secondary" regulators are pretty sticky trying to manage even 7psi.

Diaphragm devices are better than "piston" ones. My preferred secondary regulator at the moment is the Shako NR200 (the yellow topped 0-2BAR version), although I have seen a few other manufacturers doing similar things. They easily adjust down to 2-3psi and are filthy cheap. Variable LPG (secondary) regulators fill in the 0.75-2.25psi range. These are supplied by my "primary" regulator (which many folk use as thier only regulator) permanently set at 3-5BAR.

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Re: Triple Gas Regulator?

Post by Kev888 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:53 am

f00b4r wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:54 am
Are you saying on the Cola boards that all the the settings are totally independent of the others (I was always told that they "cascaded" so it wasn't possible to go to a higher pressure than the previously set one (I've never tried it myself on my board).
I was also told this when I bought mine, and may have repeated that knowledge too.. but it turned out to be slightly inaccurate. One outlet is from the primary regulator and so yes, this should be noticeably higher pressure than the others (since the secondary regulators benefit from some headroom to work with). But my secondaries were actually independent from each other - their apparent series connection was in fact just a pass-through (EDIT: Haydnexport's ebay picture looks the same). So the seller had been incorrect, and it took quite a while for me to notice that!

One other thing to consider with soft-drinks and welders regulators is that their pressure relief valves are usually a higher value than on a regulator designed for beer - or even missing completely. Some systems or kegs have other means of protection, but not all do so it isn't impossible that the PRVs on re-purposed regulators are quite a lot higher than the safe working pressure.
Last edited by Kev888 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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