Cask co2 volumn

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john luc
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Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sat May 04, 2019 4:35 pm

I am planning a clone of Bengal Lancer Cask with a 1045 SG. What level of co2 should I plan for :?:
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sat May 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Found this brewer in America who says that he does not add any priming sugar to his casks as he is going to be serving from a beer engine. Would this be normal practice these days. I thought you always add priming sugar :!:
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sat May 04, 2019 11:24 pm

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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by PeeBee » Sun May 05, 2019 9:30 am

This will keep you reading for a while...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzEv ... DNPdmV1bWc

I prime - about 12-15g sugar in 19-20L - for about 1.3 to 1.5 volumes. Optionally vent back to 1.1 volumes (about 2psi at 14C), slowly (24hours), before serving. But the dissolved CO2 will soon (two to three days) flitter away on serving a few pints, just have a means to maintain it at 2psi (or less if you prefer, but if using Corny kegs the lid seal is in danger of breaking and then the beer goes off!). 1.1 volumes emulates a freshly tapped cask beer.

You probably will not find good information on serving home brew in cask style from those in America - they just do not "get it" (there will of course be exceptions). My techniques "emulate" cask conditioned beer: You can't copy cask beer dispensing with home-brew 'cos it will go off (cask beers in Pubs need to be sold in 2-3 days, longer, up to 7 days, for stronger beers).

13-14C is the ideal (cellar) temperature for cask beer, although I actually prefer it at around 16C and I am happy drinking it at 18C (but I'm not happy getting it at 12C or less!).

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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sun May 05, 2019 10:02 am

thanks for this. I had a brief involvement with a cask brewery back in the 80's and still have 1 remaining plastic sieve that we would fit to the end of a spear on a keg to allow us to use a keg as a cask. This means we would use the gas in port on a keg coupler as the vent with a homebrew plastic tap cracked open a bit as my spile. only get to use my cask engine when its summertime and I have one of my Riparian days in the garden with fellow brewers :pink: , so, when I was reading up any updates on what was happening new, this not bothering with the secondary ferment popped up. [-X . fecking Google,too much info to just wreck a mans head. :roll:
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by PeeBee » Sun May 05, 2019 11:45 am

john luc wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 10:02 am
thanks for this. I had a brief involvement with a cask brewery back in the 80's and still have 1 remaining plastic sieve that we would fit to the end of a spear on a keg to allow us to use a keg as a cask. This means we would use the gas in port on a keg coupler as the vent with a homebrew plastic tap cracked open a bit as my spile. only get to use my cask engine when its summertime and I have one of my Riparian days in the garden with fellow brewers :pink: , so, when I was reading up any updates on what was happening new, this not bothering with the secondary ferment popped up. [-X . fecking Google,too much info to just wreck a mans head. :roll:
The reason I put so much work into "cask emulation" was to have my hand-pumps (guess that's what you mean by "cask engine") attached all the time and not just high days and holidays. To further this aim since writing my "cask conditioned" treatise I purged any silicone hose in the hand pump (Angram pumps use it) with PVC, which isn't so transparent to oxygen, to stop beer it contains turning nasty overnight, and sealing the pump nozzle between sessions with a solenoid valve:
20161022_182229_WEB.jpg
Had a view of the video you posted above. The guy is obviously an enthusiast! But it really only covered beer packaging in the brewery (and even then doesn't let go of some "keg" ways) and not actually dispensing the beer. But some of the bar pictures give a clue why some "keg" ways are hung on to: Even a very busy Pub couldn't keep half a dozen beers on hand-pump, yet the rows of hand-pumps on the video proves there are dirty tricks going on in the background.

And the "dirty tricks" I outline in that treatise? Do they work for home-brew? The following piccie is my bar (work-in-progress) and the beers made to serve through hand-pump are only served through hand-pump and I'm not endlessly cleaning out the pumps:
20190103_125520_WEB.jpg

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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by PeeBee » Sun May 05, 2019 11:55 am

… and in my last piccie note the variable LPG regulators on the back wall handling the CO2 (up to 2psi) into the "cask emulation" beers. And they are fitted with my version of "spiles" for venting i.e. fish-tank bubble-counters.

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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by Trefoyl » Sun May 05, 2019 1:03 pm

I had no idea what you were asking so didn’t answer because serving from cask or cask style in kegs is very prevalent on this forum.
I own a stainless pin with all the accoutrements but still have not used it. When I do it will be in the basement where the ambient temperature is more cask friendly, and I will use a cask breather. I will condition with only just enough dextrose as PeeBee described. The cask will be gravity pour, whenever I finally use it :roll:
I have an Angram on my beer fridge which I keep at 13C. For the corny keg I use a propane regulator for a cask breather. I sometimes condition with dextrose but often I just force carb a little because of the low amount of carbonation needed. Breweries do not usually add sugar, they put the beer in the cask early to finish fermenting in the cask. At least that’s what I think they do.
I confessed to Graham Wheeler that I force carbed one of his recipes on the beer engine and he said it was OK :lol:
I own a check valve but have yet to use it.
If you use a corny, do not forget to bleed off the pressure before attaching the gas or beer will squirt up into the hose and it will need to be replaced. Allow plenty of hose after the cask breather so there’s no chance of beer getting into it.

I also recommend a cask widge in the corny if naturally conditioning or dry hopping in the keg.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=81496
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sun May 05, 2019 1:43 pm

This is what I use,
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sun May 05, 2019 1:43 pm

and this
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cask 3.jpg
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sun May 05, 2019 1:51 pm

I use to have thousands of these but they all got dumped :cry:
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by Trefoyl » Sun May 05, 2019 2:44 pm

Looks very nice!
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by PeeBee » Sun May 05, 2019 2:45 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:03 pm
… I own a stainless pin with all the accoutrements but still have not used it. When I do it will be in the basement where the ambient temperature is more cask friendly, and I will use a cask breather. I will condition with only just enough dextrose as PeeBee described. The cask will be gravity pour, whenever I finally use it :roll:

I have an Angram on my beer fridge which I keep at 13C. For the corny keg I use a propane regulator for a cask breather. I sometimes condition with dextrose but often I just force carb a little because of the low amount of carbonation needed. Breweries do not usually add sugar, they put the beer in the cask early to finish fermenting in the cask. At least that’s what I think they do.…
A "cask breather"? I'm not very keen on them for home-brew, for the reasons I give in that "treatise" (they do nothing to maintain a decent level of CO2 condition and work only because commercial premises rely on a few days being not long enough for CO2 condition to naturally fritter away - a "few days" doesn't describe home-brew). I advise you hang on to the LPG regulators you are using for your Corny kegs.

The "cask widge" system you mention later in your post, in its "complete" form (rather than just its floats) allows you to use casks upright a bit like a keg. Might help get it in service quicker?
Trefoyl wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:03 pm
… I confessed to Graham Wheeler that I force carbed one of his recipes on the beer engine and he said it was OK :lol:
I take that LOL smiley to be what it looks like - a hesitant laugh, not a "laugh out loud"? Graham appeared to grudgingly accept the use of CO2 when he'd got his home-brewing hat on. But at any other time he had his CAMRA hat on. My "treatise" has plenty of input from Graham (though I don't know if he ever knew it) from the extensive tongue whipping he gave me when I was writing it (my partner still giggles at his description of me as preferring "fizzy" beer).
Trefoyl wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:03 pm
… I own a check valve but have yet to use it.
If you use a corny, do not forget to bleed off the pressure before attaching the gas or beer will squirt up into the hose and it will need to be replaced. Allow plenty of hose after the cask breather so there’s no chance of beer getting into it. …
Another hazard of using "breathers"! I guess you re-pressure at the end of the session? A LPG regulator allows permanent attachment to CO2 although it is still possible to attach a very over-pressured keg/cask and wash the LPG regulator in beer. But accidentally washing your regulator in beer can only happen when the keg/cask is full.

The "check valve" (they are demand valves, but we can't get past the habit of calling them check valves) are very good at preventing "accidents" at the beer out end. I recommend you use it when the time comes (obviously no point for gravity feed).



There, a suitably long post to honour Graham (na, not long enough, or informative enough).

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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by Trefoyl » Sun May 05, 2019 2:55 pm

My British friends and I were friends with Graham and we met him Canterbury for a Jolly Boy’s outing and we would talk to him on Skype, so I was able to ask him in person. He was an amazing guy who knew a lot about a lot, and had a great sense of humor. He even worked in New Jersey for a couple years when he was an electrical engineer.
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Re: Cask co2 volumn

Post by john luc » Sat May 11, 2019 9:05 pm

I was thinking about maybe transferring fermenting beer to cask with about 2 plato still to complete the fermentation and adding finings as well :-k . Any advice from more experienced Caskmen or Women would be appreciated [-o<
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