Corny carbonation problems

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Jase
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Corny carbonation problems

Post by Jase » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:00 pm

Hi Guys,

Long time lurker, first post!

I'm struggling with carbonating and dispensing a particular beer. I have a keezer with 3 corny kegs, with a wooden collar containing the 3 taps. The temperature is controlled by an STC-1000 controller, currently set at 6C (43F), and beer lines are 1/4" OD, with all lines within the keezer. There is 8ft of line between the keg and the tap, with 2 joints at each end about 2" long to step the tubing from 1/4" to 5/16" so they can connect to teh keg and tap.

I've generally only ever brewed ales and had the pressure set very low so as to be just enough to pressurise the keg, keep it fresh and push the ale out, without overly carbonating it. Up until now everything has been fine, but now I've finally brewed a lager and I can neither carbonate it properly or dispense it! The tap just dispenses foam!

I've tried having the pressure up high, around 40PSI for about 48 hours to initially carbonate the beer, then dropped the pressure, but that didn't work. I've also dropped the pressure to 11 PSI, but again just a glass of froth. The froth eventually settles leaving me 1/3rd of a pint, but it is always flat. Been like this now for nearly two weeks and I've tried one variant or another, but with no joy, and it is now getting quite frustrating. I've been viewing all sorts of charts and calculations on how to correctly pressurise the the carts and loads of posts, but no matter what I try, I just can't sort it out.

Can you guys help me sort this out please?

Thanks

Jase

bottles
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by bottles » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:55 pm

Not sure I can help much. I usually find I get the dispensing pressure right at the end of the barrel.
But have you been purging the keg to lower the pressure. I would keep doing this with the gas turned off. It will take some time to lower the dissolved gas.
Andrew

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by IPA » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:48 am

I have replied to subject many times. This is the last time.

1 Ignore all of those American carbonation calculators. They at best only work with bottled beer.
2 Ignore all of the line length calculators. I use 70 cm of 7mm tube.

3 Don't force carbonate. Instead prime with 2.5 gr a litre using disolved household white sugar
4 Use a spunding valve
5 Use a float take off. I find that the cheap Latstock works best
6 Use taps with a flow regulator.

Remember that it is easier to add gas than remove it.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
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Jase
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Jase » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:48 am

[quote=bottles post_id=849404 time=1586732119 user_id=12833]
Not sure I can help much. I usually find I get the dispensing pressure right at the end of the barrel.
But have you been purging the keg to lower the pressure. I would keep doing this with the gas turned off. It will take some time to lower the dissolved gas.
Andrew
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply, yes a couple of days ago I disconnected the gas, and have been purging the CO2 to allow the disolved gas to come out. I figured from all the messages I read, there was just too much disolved CO2. I don't know how long that'll take, but at least it will get me back to square one, and I can start again.

Jase
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Jase » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:53 am

[quote=IPA post_id=849405 time=1586760516 user_id=9129]
I have replied to subject many times. This is the last time.

1 Ignore all of those American carbonation calculators. They at best only work with bottled beer.
2 Ignore all of the line length calculators. I use 70 cm of 7mm tube.

3 Don't force carbonate. Instead prime with 2.5 gr a litre using disolved household white sugar
4 Use a spunding valve
5 Use a float take off. I find that the cheap Latstock works best
6 Use taps with a flow regulator.

Remember that it is easier to add gas than remove it.
[/quote]

Thanks for taking time to reply, but

a) I don't have a spunding valve
b) I don't have a float take off
c) I don't have taps with a flow regulator

So whilst that all might help a future batch, it doesn't really help me with this keg right now. Any suggestions for how to manage this existing keg?

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by LeeH » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:27 am

The carbonation charts work fine it's just physics, you need long enough beer lines for a slow pour. If you are you using high pressure for 48hrs you are just guessing so this may be your issue. Set the temp and pressure as per the chart and forget about it for a week. If you have the funds the Blichmann quick carb system will give you perfect carbonated beer from the FV to keg in 15-30 mins.

Foaming issues in a Keezer is often down to the temp differential from the bottom of the freezer to the top where your beer lines are. A simple 12VDC fan is the solution to keep the air circulated. Without the CO2 will come out of the solution as it reaches the warmer area where your beer lines are. This can be confirmed by looking for gas pockets in the beer lines.

HTH

Lee. :)
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Jocky » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:15 pm

The carbonation charts are also all American. Their line sizes are measured as inner diameter, whereas beer line in the uk is sold measured by outer diameter.

e.g. What we call 3/16” is actually 2/16” to Americans.

And I’ve found that 5-6 feet of 3/16” lines will even pour Belgian beers at 3 volumes happily.

Otherwise - what LeeH says.
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by IPA » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Jase wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:53 am
IPA wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:48 am
I have replied to subject many times. This is the last time.

1 Ignore all of those American carbonation calculators. They at best only work with bottled beer.
2 Ignore all of the line length calculators. I use 70 cm of 7mm tube.

3 Don't force carbonate. Instead prime with 2.5 gr a litre using disolved household white sugar
4 Use a spunding valve
5 Use a float take off. I find that the cheap Latstock works best
6 Use taps with a flow regulator.

Remember that it is easier to add gas than remove it.
Thanks for taking time to reply, but

a) I don't have a spunding valve
b) I don't have a float take off
c) I don't have taps with a flow regulator

So whilst that all might help a future batch, it doesn't really help me with this keg right now. Any suggestions for how to manage this existing keg?
All that you can do is follow the advice of Bottles and keep venting the keg. You really should buy a Latstock float and fit it with 60 cm of 6.5mm neoprene tube and attach it to a gas in tube in place of the long beer out tube. You will draw of crystal clear beer from the first to the last glass.
It seems from your post that you force carbonated and forgot to take into account that,unless you pasteurised the beer, the yeast continues to ferment residual sugars in the beer resulting in over carbonation
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by IPA » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Senior moment !!
Please read silicone for neoprene
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Sorcerer » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:10 am

If you lift the relief valve to remove any pressure in the keg and then apply a few bursts of co2 to the liquid post, (the gas disconnect fits the liquid post) , with the relief valve on the lid of the keg open, it will act like a stripping column and the co2 traveling up through the beer will strip the excess co2 out of solution. This will quickly correct the over carbonation

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by IPA » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:35 am

Sorcerer wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:10 am
If you lift the relief valve to remove any pressure in the keg and then apply a few bursts of co2 to the liquid post, (the gas disconnect fits the liquid post) , with the relief valve on the lid of the keg open, it will act like a stripping column and the co2 traveling up through the beer will strip the excess co2 out of solution. This will quickly correct the over carbonation

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
The gas disconnect does not fit the out post !!!!!
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Sorcerer » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:18 am

Without meaning to get into an argument, it does, I've had to do this it twice before with overcarbed kegs
Have a look at this video, jump to 7 minutes
https://youtu.be/xk79UYGmAk8
The liquid disconnect isn't reversible but the gas disconnect is. If you accidently put the liquid disconnect onto the gas post it's a mother of a job to get it off again, the gas disconnect is a little bit tight when you're removing it, but it pops off easy enough, here's two photos of a gas disconnect on each post of my own cornie. ImageImage

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LeeH
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Corny carbonation problems

Post by LeeH » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:32 am

Yep, unfortunately it does go on with a little force. I’ve filled a reg with beer twice! Now I have coloured o rings on both posts.


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Last edited by LeeH on Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corny carbonation problems

Post by Sorcerer » Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:22 am

Ditto, I use red for liquid and green for gas, you can make out the red one in the top photo

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Corny carbonation problems

Post by LeeH » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:15 pm

Where did you source your from? I did green for gas, red/brown for beer too.


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