Gluten free Barley malt syrup

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simon12
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Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by simon12 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:09 pm

In my quest for gluten free grains I stumbled across a supplier of Gluten free Barley malt syrup. They have currently only supplied it for baking but see no reason it can't be used for brewing (they supply the non-GF version for it and say it tastes no different). I hope to get a sample shortly. Anyone have any comments suggestions or interest in the product please comment. I am considering starting a company selling gluten free home brew ingredients do you guys think there is enough market there?

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:40 am

Apart from this syrup and maybe sorghum syrup, what would you stock?

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by Aleman » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:36 am

This could be a way forward for Brewing GF ale, however, Just because it 'tastes the same', the fact that it is supplied for baking could mean that it is not suitable for brewing. There are several 'grades' of barley that are grown, and only the low nitrogen grade is suitable for malting, during the malting process the nitrogen levels are carefully controlled, so that when we brew with it we don't get a hazy beer. US 6 row for example has a higher than desired nitrogen content and ideally requires a protein rest and the use of low nitrogen adjuncts to ensure a haze free beer.

Looking forward to hearing about your brewing trials with it though. =D>

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by Fil » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:51 am

is gluten found in beer? a friend with a wheat problem, (eating a doughnut will ruin him for days) will quaff white wheat beers without discomfort??
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:05 am

Fil wrote:is gluten found in beer? a friend with a wheat problem, (eating a doughnut will ruin him for days) will quaff white wheat beers without discomfort??
Yes, it is. How much depends on the type of beer.
My wife works with somebody who's husband is a master brewer and he reckons many beers would pass the GF certification if the breweries bothered to get them tested, as much of the protein is destroyed in the brewing process. On the other hand, loads of coeliacs do have reactions to beer - some can't even tolerate the GF certified ones (<20ppm of the culprit protein)
As the commercial GF stuff is (a) expensive and (b) not mild, I brew for my coeliac wife using ClarityFerm enzyme to destroy the protein. It was originally for hazes but has the happy side effect of taking out the gluten.

Dunno about your friend. Coeliac disease is all about gluten (wheat barley oats rye) and is an auto-immune disease, but there are several related allergies and sensitivities to different things in those grains, usually proteins. Looks like the brewing process removes whatever he's sensitive to. Or maybe it's not actually wheat that's his problem, maybe it's something else you get in doughnuts etc that you don't get in ale. There's a fair bit of misdiagnosis going on in this area.

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by simon12 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:20 am

oldbloke wrote:Apart from this syrup and maybe sorghum syrup, what would you stock?
I think I have had a breakthrough in malted grains so likely malted millet in pale malt and crystal varieties and later maybe munich millet and darker roasts and other GF malted grains such as buckwheat. I am thinking at the moment I would only supply 25Kg quantities direct and sell to the established home brew shops to pack down to smaller quantities and maybe start a GF nano brewery on the side.

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:34 am

simon12 wrote:
oldbloke wrote:Apart from this syrup and maybe sorghum syrup, what would you stock?
I think I have had a breakthrough in malted grains so likely malted millet in pale malt and crystal varieties and later maybe munich millet and darker roasts and other GF malted grains such as buckwheat. I am thinking at the moment I would only supply 25Kg quantities direct and sell to the established home brew shops to pack down to smaller quantities and maybe start a GF nano brewery on the side.
I'd buy some millet(s), it works well but malting it myself is a pain.
Trouble with sorghum is it tastes of sorghum

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by simon12 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:51 am

oldbloke wrote:
Fil wrote:is gluten found in beer? a friend with a wheat problem, (eating a doughnut will ruin him for days) will quaff white wheat beers without discomfort??
Yes, it is. How much depends on the type of beer.
My wife works with somebody who's husband is a master brewer and he reckons many beers would pass the GF certification if the breweries bothered to get them tested, as much of the protein is destroyed in the brewing process. On the other hand, loads of coeliacs do have reactions to beer - some can't even tolerate the GF certified ones (<20ppm of the culprit protein)
As the commercial GF stuff is (a) expensive and (b) not mild, I brew for my coeliac wife using ClarityFerm enzyme to destroy the protein. It was originally for hazes but has the happy side effect of taking out the gluten.

Dunno about your friend. Coeliac disease is all about gluten (wheat barley oats rye) and is an auto-immune disease, but there are several related allergies and sensitivities to different things in those grains, usually proteins. Looks like the brewing process removes whatever he's sensitive to. Or maybe it's not actually wheat that's his problem, maybe it's something else you get in doughnuts etc that you don't get in ale. There's a fair bit of misdiagnosis going on in this area.
Just to add to this not only are there various allergies and intolerances as well as coeliac there are varying sensitivities as well, I am coeliac but don't get any reaction from normal beers but do wheat, though I still worry normal beer could be doing me undetected damage. Some coeliacs get a reaction from gluten free <5ppm beers while most don't but many avoid anyway. Some coeliac home brewers won't use clarity ferm as they do not know exactly how reduced the gluten is, these are the ones this may appeal to most as if you know your main ingredient (excluding water) is under 20ppm the final product should be massively below this. Just some other info on this I read a while back the results of a test the I think finnish coeliac society did on 80 something commercial beers and 5 were under the 20ppm to be labeled gluten free 3 of which the levels were undetectable from memory corona and bishops finger were 2 of these. Of the rest I think Carlberg was 21ppm and all the ones that didn't contain wheat were under 200ppm but all the wheat beers were well over 400ppm (this is approximate from memory as I can't find it again).

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Somebody did some proper tests on ClarityFerm and it did get the brew well under the 20ppm limit. I may still have the link, I'll look later.
My wife has no reaction to a few kits I've done with added ClarityFerm, and she's now at the stage where minor cross contamination from a butter dish has her throwing up.

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by PhilB » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:53 am

Hi oldbloke
oldbloke wrote:Somebody did some proper tests on ClarityFerm and it did get the brew well under the 20ppm limit. I may still have the link, I'll look later.
... I think it was probably the Stone Brewing tests that you are talking about (there's some info there (link)), those would have been the tests they would have had to do to be able to put "Gluten Reduced" on the labels of their "Delicious IPA" before selling it, and apparently continue to do on every batch and publish the results for those buying the beer :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:07 am

PhilB wrote:Hi oldbloke
oldbloke wrote:Somebody did some proper tests on ClarityFerm and it did get the brew well under the 20ppm limit. I may still have the link, I'll look later.
... I think it was probably the Stone Brewing tests that you are talking about (there's some info there (link)), those would have been the tests they would have had to do to be able to put "Gluten Reduced" on the labels of their "Delicious IPA" before selling it, and apparently continue to do on every batch and publish the results for those buying the beer :?

Cheers, PhilB
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All that really matters to me is that it lets me give the missus a decent mild that won't make her start ejecting fluids from one end or the other!

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by simon12 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:48 am

Just got confirmation there is a sample of this on its way to me. The GF barley malt syrup that is.

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by Jim » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:04 am

Watching this thread with interest, as my wife has coeliac disease. Also found this link on Twitter this morning - even Brew Dog are getting on the gluten-free bandwaggon apparently!

The rise and rise of gluten-free beer.
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simon12
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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by simon12 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:12 pm

Thanks for the interest, am I correct in thinking I should just mix it with water until I get the required pre boil SG (since I have no idea how concentrated it is) then do the boil the same as all grain as I have never done an extract brew before.

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Re: Gluten free Barley malt syrup

Post by oldbloke » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:08 pm

I'd treat it like a can kit, just add water, and sugars to get the SG. Most can kits have hop essence/extract, sometimes already mixed into the malt syrup, but you can choose to use real hops, but then of course you would want heat

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