Greetings and a couple of general queries.

[StuB]

Hello to you all, I thought I'd make my first post by giving a summary of my homebrewing career so far.

Having done a couple of homebrew kits with my Dad many moons ago, early this year I decided to give homebrew another go and splashed out on some new basic kit. My first two kits were both Woodefordes, their Wherry and Nog kits. They weren't too bad, though they had a slightly thin taste to them.

3 weeks ago I started my Nelson's Revenge kit and unfortunately I've had to bin it due to a horrible TCP taste and what I now understand to have been a stuck fermentation. In fact I'd go so far as to say it didn't really get off to a good start at all. Unlike my first two kits where I filtered the water, for the Nelson's I used water straight from the tap not realising the risks from chlorine. Also, I didn't get the yeast prepared properly and after only two days, what foam there had been (a small amount in the middle of the wort) had almost disappeared. I left it for a few more days and then bottled it up and left it for a week indoors, then after two days outside in the lean-too I opened a bottle to check it, and found it flat as a pancake and tasting of TCP.

Since then, I have found this site and so was able to start my Admiral's Reserve kit yesterday with much more confidence. I followed the how-to from 18000ft site, and based on posts on this forum I substituted the supplied 6gm yeast sachet with a sachet of Safale S-04.

I used a Campden tablet to prep the water this time having read about the dangers of chlorinated water, and I ensured the wort was well aerated. I was delighted to come down to the kitchen this morning and find a lovely foam head and a delicious smell to it and feel much more confident that this will taste better.

Rather than adding brewing sugar straight to the bottles prior to adding the fluid, this time I intend to add a medium Spray Malt solution to the bin prior to bottling. And as soon at that's bottled, I have a Summer Ale and ESB kits ready to go.

Anyway, that's my brief history of homebrew, I have a couple of queries about kits.

1) For you who use kits, are you happy to stick with the supplied yeast or do you substitute for an alternative?

2) Having the benefit of the guides on this and 18000ft sites along with the helpful posts on this site, do you follow these other guides or stick with the instructions that come with the kit? I feel that following the kit instructions is what caused my mishap last time and hasn't helped my first two kits.

And finally, has anyone here been able to compare homebrew primed for keg/bottling with sugar against priming with spraymalt? I saw in a post of Daab's that it was suggested that the effects of spray malt over sugar would be minimal but, was interested to know if anyone else here thought the difference was worthwhile, or even if it was simply for peace-of-mind that spray malt would offer the best chances for the beer to turn out well?

Thanks for reading that essay!

Stu

[mysterio]

3 weeks ago I started my Nelson's Revenge kit and unfortunately I've had to bin it due to a horrible TCP taste and what I now understand to have been a stuck fermentation. In fact I'd go so far as to say it didn't really get off to a good start at all. Unlike my first two kits where I filtered the water, for the Nelson's I used water straight from the tap not realising the risks from chlorine. Also, I didn't get the yeast prepared properly and after only two days, what foam there had been (a small amount in the middle of the wort) had almost disappeared. I left it for a few more days and then bottled it up and left it for a week indoors, then after two days outside in the lean-too I opened a bottle to check it, and found it flat as a pancake and tasting of TCP.

Sounds like very bad yeast health along with chlorinated water, how did you prepare your yeast?

1) For you who use kits, are you happy to stick with the supplied yeast or do you substitute for an alternative?

I always think replacing the yeast that came with the kit is a simple way to improve the quality of the beer. In many instances the yeast supplied will be old and not a sufficient amount. Something like Safale SO4 is excellent quality and you get a full 11.5 grams.

2) Having the benefit of the guides on this and 18000ft sites along with the helpful posts on this site, do you follow these other guides or stick with the instructions that come with the kit? I feel that following the kit instructions is what caused my mishap last time and hasn't helped my first two kits.

I've not used many kits but the supplied instructions to tend to be pretty poor - stick with 18000ft.

And finally, has anyone here been able to compare homebrew primed for keg/bottling with sugar against priming with spraymalt? I saw in a post of Daab's that it was suggested that the effects of spray malt over sugar would be minimal but, was interested to know if anyone else here thought the difference was worthwhile, or even if it was simply for peace-of-mind that spray malt would offer the best chances for the beer to turn out well?

I've tried cane sugar, brewing sugar and spraymalt and there's no difference. I just use table sugar now if i'm bottle priming. If you're using an equal amount of say, spraymalt and sucrose then the only difference will be the level of carbonation because spraymalt is less fermentable. I've read that using malt extract to prime gives 'finer' bubbles to the finished beer but I don't believe that personally.

[Aleman]

The idea of using spray malt to prime comes from the serious days of kit 'n' Kilo brewing, where massive amounts of sugar were added to kits producing a thin and cidery beer. A lot of brewers on a forum on the other side of the pond suggested that all sugar was bad and produced a thin cidery beer, even it it was only 1/2 a level tsp

There is a difference, one thing I have noticed is that you do get a looser fluffier sediment in spray malt primed bottles, this is because of the non boiled proteins from the malt, this can lead to a stability problem with long term storage of the beer, but for two-three months it should be fine.

Taste wise . . . . Little to tell
Carbonation wise . . . AS long as you use the equivalent amounts it matters not.

Its worth splitting a batch and seeing for yourself what effects you notice

[StuB]

Hello chaps,

well, to prepare the yeast for the Nelson's, I followed the kit instructions of adding to water of 30 degrees temperature and leave to rehydrate for around 10mins, and so that is what I did. I don't believe it had reached its peak in terms of ending up with a nice head and creamy consistency before I added it to the wort, and I didn't check the temperature of the wort before pitching.

Furthermore, I didn't put enough effort into aerating the wort before pitching the yeast, I just assumed that I'd given it enough of a stir to ensure the malt extract was mixed with the water and left it at that. For the Admiral's, I left it for around 40mins in total with a couple of stirrings to ensure any yeast stuck to the sides of the jug got folded into the wet mix.

In hindsight having read this forum for a week, I realise now the importance of many aspects of the process including ensuring the wort is well aerated and of reducing oxidisation of the wort at the keg/bottling stage among other things, and yet these are what I now believe to be important aspects of the process but they are not made explicit on the instructions on the kit.

I shall certainly experiment with the spray malt/sugar priming, I am now enjoying the prospect of being able to experiment with my brews and I'm sure I'll enjoy the rewards whatever the outcome

Hi DaaB, sorry I hadn't been sure until now 18000ft is your site. It was from there and looking at this site that I read about possibility of supplied yeast sachets being not up-to-scratch or of insufficient quantity. Although these kits are cheap enough to buy I was annoyed at having to bin so much beer having put the time and effort into preparing it, and so that is why I have bought extra yeast and taken as much care as possible in the preparation of my latest kit in the hope that it'll have the best chance of producing a nice ale.

[Coppertone]

Why do kit makers not supply good/the right quantity of yeast with their kits? Are they not just shooting themselves in the foot by doing this? e.g. from reading forums, Muntons has got a very bad rep for stuck ferments with the yeast to blame. With every failure could be the loss of a long time customer and an 'I'm not trying that kit again' attitude. Why do we have to keep buying Safale? Ok rant over. Happy brewing Stub, i'm relatively new to this and i'm enjoying it a lot.

[daveyk]

So if balencing the cost and reliability is an issue how about this....

Ditch the first kit yeast in favour of a full 11g or whatever.... hang onto it though and use WITH the next kit yeast making 12g of yeast??

I guess this only works with kits of the same make / type for true reliability..... what do you all think?

One thing I've noticed, and I might be wrong with this so I'm willing to be corrected.... the yeast packs in the kits don't always have a best before date on them.... for how long can we reliably keep them? I'm guessing the BB date on the kit is the best yard stick.

Dave

[Coppertone]

I agree Daab that it is not always the yeast to blame, but a lot of people seem to put it at fault (probably why people think it is safer to by another type of yeast). If they are looking to cut costs then they should not supply any yeast. I know that they say that the yeast contributes to the outcome of flavour, but most of us seem to use a different yeast anyway, e.g. Safale, meaning the supplied yeast probably going to waste or being used as daveyk suggests, not a bad idea if you do a certain type of kit regularly.

[Aleman]

When we were discussing this many moons ago on UK Homebrew, Clive did ask if as brewers we were prepared to pay 20-30p more per kit to get two sachets (or one big sachet). As Craft brewers we said yes. . . . but as the type of brewers that are buying the cheap kits from Wilkos and morrisons, that extra 50p could be a deciding factor. I know not if Clive did increase the Pack size of yeast in the Brupak kits . . . I can only hope so

Now I'm not wanting to p*ss *ff kit brewers, but more often than not cheap kits are a way for cheap alcohol that doesn't taste 'too bad' and is 'better' than the 'crap' in cans, rather than a quality product. . To those brewers 6g or 11g of yeast is immaterial, finishing too high is immaterial, as long as it has alcohol and tastes something not quite completely unlike beer then its a result. To craftbrewers who are looking to produce a quality product (and yes you can produce a quality product from kits, its just harder), then you are in the minority, and have found your way here and discovered what the problems are, but more importantly how to overcome them . . . A lot of people who found that the cheap kits didn't provide the result they were expecting abandon the hobby at that point.

Sorry for the generalisations I've made in this post, but the general approach towards kit production is to keep the masses happy not to meet the need of the connoisseur.

[CyberPaddy66]

As a current (and also 20 years ago) kit brewer I find that there is barely enough info on the instructions to just get by and I agree with Aleman that many home brewers who get displeased with the results just give up and stop brewing (I stopped because I got a couple of vinegar batches in a row ).

I don't expect to be getting into mash brewing for some time and will continue with the kits but I personally believe that taste is way more important than strength. I suppose I'll be fighting an up-hill battle with the kits and seeing as my budget is very low I'll be buying the "cheap" stuff as well I don't expect to win this fight any time soon.

One question I do have is this...

If I find that the yeast in the kits doesn't re-hydrate what would the implications of using a "Youngs Wine Yeast" to get my by as aposed to paying out for "Ale Yeast"?

[Aleman]

as my budget is very low I'll be buying the "cheap" stuff as well I don't expect to win this fight any time soon.

Actually with the advice on here and Daabs site, you should be able to make great leaps forward and get great tasting beer from even the cheaper kits . . . But you are going to need to buy better ingredients though, like DME instead of sugar and also additional hops.

One question I do have is this...

If I find that the yeast in the kits doesn't re-hydrate what would the implications of using a "Youngs Wine Yeast" to get my by as aposed to paying out for "Ale Yeast"?

Rather than that as an option what about buying a 100g tub of genuine brewers yeast Item 10. And store it in the fridge, If the kit yeast doesn't rehydrate a couple of teaspoons of this will be much more effective on a flavour impact than a wine yeast.

[delboy]

I don't expect to be getting into mash brewing for some time and will continue with the kits but I personally believe that taste is way more important than strength. I suppose I'll be fighting an up-hill battle with the kits and seeing as my budget is very low I'll be buying the "cheap" stuff as well I don't expect to win this fight any time soon.

Why not try doing a mini mash as outlined on DaaBs website it doesn't require specialist expensive equipment (pots and pans etc). It'll give you an insight into All grain and allow you to make an informed choice about investing money on mashing on a larger scale.

I have to say it was a leap of faith spending close to £150 for the H&G setup (it can be made yourself much cheaper though) but when i had that first taste of all grain i knew it was a sound investment. Trying a mini mash would allow you to know if the All grain marlakey was for you or not.

[CyberPaddy66]

One question I do have is this...

If I find that the yeast in the kits doesn't re-hydrate what would the implications of using a "Youngs Wine Yeast" to get my by as aposed to paying out for "Ale Yeast"?

Rather than that as an option what about buying a 100g tub of genuine brewers yeast Item 10. And store it in the fridge, If the kit yeast doesn't rehydrate a couple of teaspoons of this will be much more effective on a flavour impact than a wine yeast.

Great link, that's a bit cheaper than I expected and I will have to get some in for future piece of mind, thanks.