Hi all,
its been a while since posting on here and am now on my 16th brew with some bad but mostly good results. Mainly thanks to this site for guidance.
I have just gone to bottle my latest batch of Muntons Midas Touch but when I opened the lid of the FV I found 3 small flies lying dead on top of the brew. It looks like they have managed to get in through a small gap in the lid. They look like baby blue bottles.
Am I wasting my time bottling? There are no smells or signs of infection but dead flies don't fill me with confidence. Am I wasting my time and should I cut my losses and put it down the sink?
What do you think?
possible infection??
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maxashton
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mchansen
ask for an other pint, I think not 
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Stoutman
I would advise you get rid of that brew!
Although it pains me to think of wasted homebrew, as a microbiological analyst, I can say that there very well may be some bad things growing in your beer.
A low ethanol content (<15%abv) does not kill all organisms, and in the levels found in beer is only a mild suppressive for some. Because of the available sugars in partially or nearly-fermented beer, it's a real potential growth medium for some nasties.
And as flies seem to get into all sorts of horrible places, they could easily be carrying some pathogenic bacteria. So, although you might get away with it, the risk of illness perhaps outweighs the benefits of keeping the brew.
Damn blue a** flies!!!
Although it pains me to think of wasted homebrew, as a microbiological analyst, I can say that there very well may be some bad things growing in your beer.
A low ethanol content (<15%abv) does not kill all organisms, and in the levels found in beer is only a mild suppressive for some. Because of the available sugars in partially or nearly-fermented beer, it's a real potential growth medium for some nasties.
And as flies seem to get into all sorts of horrible places, they could easily be carrying some pathogenic bacteria. So, although you might get away with it, the risk of illness perhaps outweighs the benefits of keeping the brew.
Damn blue a** flies!!!
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Graham
There are no known pathogens that can grow in beer. The alcohol, hop antiseptic and low pH knackers that sort of bacteria.
Beer spoilage though, is a distinct possibility, and some types of fly, particularly frit-flies, as opposed to fruit-flies, are particularly troublesome, are attracted to beer, and are abundant this time of year. Frit-flies live on barley and other cereals, and when the combine harvesters are thrashing around in the fields, the frit-flies are forced to flee (try saying that after a skinful, Peter Piper). If a frit-fly gets into your beer, infection is inevitable because they are carrying lots of barley-loving micro-organisms. Fruit flies will also spoil beer, but they are not so readily attracted to beer as are frit-flies - they prefer a juicy plum.
One way of avoiding the problem is to not brew around harvest time. Another is to get yourself a square of net-curtain material and stretch it over your fermenting bin under the lid. The mesh has to be very fine because frit-flies are tiny things, 2mm long, smaller even than fruit-flies.
Uncanny isn't it that the frit-fly's third annual adult cycle coincides with harvest time, and are able to fly just when the combines are making them homeless. Three adult cycles a year throws new light onto why brewers of old did not brew between April and October.
Beer spoilage though, is a distinct possibility, and some types of fly, particularly frit-flies, as opposed to fruit-flies, are particularly troublesome, are attracted to beer, and are abundant this time of year. Frit-flies live on barley and other cereals, and when the combine harvesters are thrashing around in the fields, the frit-flies are forced to flee (try saying that after a skinful, Peter Piper). If a frit-fly gets into your beer, infection is inevitable because they are carrying lots of barley-loving micro-organisms. Fruit flies will also spoil beer, but they are not so readily attracted to beer as are frit-flies - they prefer a juicy plum.
One way of avoiding the problem is to not brew around harvest time. Another is to get yourself a square of net-curtain material and stretch it over your fermenting bin under the lid. The mesh has to be very fine because frit-flies are tiny things, 2mm long, smaller even than fruit-flies.
Uncanny isn't it that the frit-fly's third annual adult cycle coincides with harvest time, and are able to fly just when the combines are making them homeless. Three adult cycles a year throws new light onto why brewers of old did not brew between April and October.
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Stoutman
Most pathogenic bacteria will not grow in beer due to the pH, but alcohol does not make much difference at low levels. The antiseptic qualities of hopping also inhibit bacterial growth.
However, technically speaking there are some pathogenic organisms that could grow in partially-fermented beer. Take Enterobacteriaceae for instance - more specifically enterhemorrhagic or enteropathogenic bacteria; these could grow in beer, given the right conditions. Symptoms are not life-threatening unless you were already immunocompromised in some way, but you could get a nasty dose of the runs!
I might, for the sake of personal interest, infect a sample of homebrew with a live culture to see if it's capable of supporting such pathogens, and I'll include some pictures because I'm sad like that
However, technically speaking there are some pathogenic organisms that could grow in partially-fermented beer. Take Enterobacteriaceae for instance - more specifically enterhemorrhagic or enteropathogenic bacteria; these could grow in beer, given the right conditions. Symptoms are not life-threatening unless you were already immunocompromised in some way, but you could get a nasty dose of the runs!
I might, for the sake of personal interest, infect a sample of homebrew with a live culture to see if it's capable of supporting such pathogens, and I'll include some pictures because I'm sad like that
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yeasty
Wow... thanks for the science lesson guys. As I've already spent £20 I have decided to bottle it anyway. I will give it a month and see what happens. If its good I will let you know. If you don't hear anything call a doctor!
In the meantime stoutman if your test proves positive let me know.
Thanks again
In the meantime stoutman if your test proves positive let me know.
Thanks again
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Bongo
well the first thing i would do is pick each one up and slap them on the back of the head and say spit it our ya bastard,but yes i do sympathise and hope it goes ok for ya fella,they do get in everywhere like thunder flies i see them just as i sanitize creeping around the top of the fermenter grrrrr.
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Chris The Fish
Id say bottle it, then leave it to mature.
Just when you want to taste a sample, invite someone round and ask them to taste it, you however have a second secret stash of a different beer.
the following morning give them a call, if they are fine then you know you'll be ok.
they will be none the wiser and thank you for a night of free beer.
hope this helps!
CtF.
Ps. this plan falls down if they are ill/die overnight.
Just when you want to taste a sample, invite someone round and ask them to taste it, you however have a second secret stash of a different beer.
the following morning give them a call, if they are fine then you know you'll be ok.
they will be none the wiser and thank you for a night of free beer.
hope this helps!
CtF.
Ps. this plan falls down if they are ill/die overnight.