Wherry Worry

[delboy]

My Conkerwood ale kit has stopped ! It is not bubbling but has not reached gravity for bottling. It is over 2 weeks old and kept quite warm. What can I do ?

Answer :
There is a few reasons why this could have happend and if you can send me a note of the batch code i will check the yeast and extract we have as a retained sample.

In the mean time you could add another yeast sachet to the brew as this may kick start the fermentation again.

I'm sure they know about it, i'm wondering how many potential homebrewers this problem has put off, also according to the Mr Malty.com yeast pitching calculator 5 gals of 1040 wort requires 90% more yeast than is supplied (1.9x5g sachets) assuming the yeast was packaged fresh on the day of purchase, 2 sachets if it has been in the warehouse/shop shelves for 4 months

This adds weight to the arguement that an 11g sachet of yeast should be bought with a box of Wherry etc and also some yeast nutrient. (Keeping the slurry for a couple of generations will keep the cost down, then again what's a couple of quid if it means saving a £17 kit).

I see what your saying DaaB and i guess what you are saying is for the ears of those with problems with these kits now. But i also think at £17 the manufacturers should be stumping up the extra yeast and nutrients otherwise it becomes a £20 kit and thats getting pretty damn pricey.
Is there any way of lobbying them apart from email which they just ignore!!

[delboy]

Yeah, of course i agree, better to spend the extra couple of quid, just a PITA that muntons aren't taking steps to remedy it.
I did the same thing, stopped buying the kits and moved to AG (this forum was also a big factor im my decision to make the jump).
So i suppose muntons are good for one thing they get people into AG sooner

[Bunglebonce]

Hi all, I'm new here and have sought advice from tinterweb as for the first time ever, I appear to have a "stuck" as you put it, fermentation

Will be going through the various restart methods you've all helpfully posted staring with the beer enzyme but thought I'd post my catalogue of errors as it may help other's like myself.

My background is one of a long term kit brewer, but very infrequent (probably only 20 kits in the last 20 years begining with a boots stout kit when I was 16 ).

Anyway, did a John Bull masterclass Victorian Bitter kit in the autumn of last year and it was A1.

Wanted something different this time so tried the Wherry - mistake???

First off in my ignorance I thought id try using botteld water for a change to rid the beer of any chlorine taste. mistake No1 apparently as it can contain bacteria and lacks certain things that are good for beer brewing.
Ironically I'd got some campden tablets which would have killed the chlorine tap water taste in my drawer left over from wine making!

2nd, I followed the instructions and started the yeast in a cup of water (never bothered with this before and never had a problem!) and although I thought 45 degrees sounded a bit high, thought well who am I to question those in the know (ie Woodford/muntons)???

3rd, the thermometer I was using to check the water temp to start the yeast off was showing, unbeknown to me, 10 degrees less than the actual temp of the water (I found this out when I put it in the upstairs room and it said 12 degrees where as the stat on the heating gad just cut off at 22!).

This I assumed had killed the yeast although after 36 hours, it kicked off.

One week later, all activity appears to have ceased although strangely, there appears to be lumps of yeast on the top of the brew, a thin dispersed layer of foam and a sort of viscose "clingy" appearance to the liquid on the top (evident when putting the hydrometer in) and this is something I’ve not seen before with any other kit. There are no strange smells or tastes however so I’m assuming this is perhaps because it hasn’t fermented out as it should.

The hydro was reading 1020 but this was to the top of the curved water line up the glass tube so I would estimate it was nearer 1030 flush with the top of the liquid.

Anyway, next step is to try a beer enzyme then I'll try more yeast.

One question: should I disturb the sediment cake on the bottom of the fermenter when stirring the enzyme in or not?


Sorry about the long post and I'll keep you all informed


Cheers
B

[fivetide]

I found all the advice extremely helpful (check out the links in the sticky at the top of tha page) and the thing that really kickstarted it for me was throwing in an extra sachet of Safale after getting stuck at about 1021 and turning the central heating up a bit.

I reckon this advice may have saved my first attempt at one of these kits anyway. Time will tell.

The consensus amongst the brewerati now seems to be that the beer these kits can produce is good, but the yeast supplied is probably, um, crap.

[delboy]

Bunglebounce i'd try the yeast nutrients or another sachet of yeast first before going to the dry beer enzyme.
The dry beer enzyme will almost certainly restart the ferment, only trouble is stopping it (it chews up the dextrins and turns them into sugars) you will end up with a stronger very weak bodied beer that isn't really wherry (IMO). If you can restart it with the yeast or nutrients you are much more likely to get something like the expected FG.

On the point about hydro readings i can't understand how the reading you are getting could be either 1020 or 1030? thats a big diff and suggest you may be doing something wrong. Suggest you look up a link to reading a hydro, or maybe someone will post one (sorry haven't time to find a link at the mo).

If the thermometer is that far out it needs changing, saying that though i would'nt depend on the room stat being all that accurate either.
What you could do is measure how far its off from 100C and 0C. Get a good rolling boil going in a pan and put the thermo in and see what it reads. Get lots of ice cubes into a glass of water when you can see they are almost all melted put the thermo in and read (this should be 0C).
Oh one more thing let the thermo sit for quite a while several mins before reading the temp (mercury thermos are fast but the coloured alchohol ones most people use are terribly slow, might even explain the 12C reading in the house)

Anyway all the best with it.

[fivetide]

...either that or localised spiritual activity. Are the walls dripping blood?

[delboy]

...either that or localised spiritual activity. Are the walls dripping blood?

Yes forgot to mention if a swarm of flies descend upon you run screaming from the house, stop only to pick up the wherry

[Bunglebonce]

Thanks for all the help folks

The said thermo has been binned and i now have a nice new one from the local brew shop. Also, I bought some new yeast the Safale 04 stuff as recommended and I'm going to pitch that straight in the brew later.

Couldn't get hold of the enzyme anyway

I'm sure Ive read this elsewhere on this great forum but just to check, should I stir the yeast in real well i.e. should I drag all the sediment up off the bottom again or just blend it in gently?

Think the reading was less than good on the hydro as I put it straight in the brew bin and all the residue on the top was clinging to it and obscuring the real level of the liquid. I suppose its best to take some out and check it in tall glass of some sort isn't it?

Cheers again.

B

[fivetide]

I was advised to sprinkle the whole Safale04 sachet in the fermenter, wait twenty minutes and stir in gently taking care not aerate.

I think optionally you can gently stir up a little of the yeast from the bottom, but I didn't do this. I also put in a half tsp of Yeat-Vit at the same time as a belt and braces approach and warmed the room up a bit

By 12 hours later it had a decent head on it once again, although I only got down to about 1015 in the end, left for a further 24hrs then moved into a new keg, where it sits now with a bag of hops sunk in it.

[fivetide]

If you can't get clear brown surface to put your hydro in to, surely it's still doing something? By the time mine stuck I could take a hydro reading no problem after pushing the surface around gently with the hydro end to reveal a nice area of brown clear liquid.

[delboy]

good advice from fivetide, if you are taking a reading in the fermenter giving the hydro a spin will also help dislodge stuff thats stuck to it.

[sparky Paul]

Excellent pages you've put together there DaaB, just right for beginners who are not quite sure what's supposed to be happening.

[prodigal2]

A little bit late but i've put some info together regarding making up kits and problms that may occur here.

http://www.18000feet.com/how/kittips.htm

With a section on recovering a stuck fermentation here

http://www.18000feet.com/how/kittips.htm#Restarting

Hope that helps some

As ever DaaB, brilliant

Your pages keep getting better and better.

[delboy]

Surely that warrants a sticky with the stuck ferment bit at the top of the page!!!

[inthedark]

i've made it more visible now.

Subtle...