Second beer kit failure

[ni9e]

Hi I have now done two beer kits one a geordie mild and one geordie bitter both with geordie beer enhancer.The mild never fermented out hydro reading of 1018 never budged but due to being close to death with man flu it remained in the FV for 20 days got SWMBO to taste and result was a strong vinegar taste so down the sink it went.
The bitter has been in FV for 8 days but since day 5 it has stuck on 1015 just been to check again and sampled a tad and it had a strong vinegar taste so the sink will get this one I think.
Any ideas on why this is happening everything was sterilized and instructions followed to the letter the temp was kept between 18-20c.
Could the beer enhancer have this effect as my first brew had brewers sugar and turned out fine.
Any help on this would be more than gratefully received.

[Andy]

If you put a post together detailing the steps you went though then someone might be able to help. Lots of detail though!

[ni9e]

Ok both kits were made very similar

First rehydrated yeast in cooled boiled water at 20c

Put 5ltrs of water into large cooking pot and brought up to the boil. Kit tin was left standing in boiled water while this was happening.

Added the beer enhancer to the boiled water opened tin and added this also. The mixture was stirred with a sterilized beer paddle.
When mixed I put the liquid into my sterilized FV and added the correct amount of cold water tested the temp with sterilized thermometer 21c so threw in the yeast gave it a bloody good stir put lid on FV put airlock on and left it to brew till day 5 took hydro reading same on day 6 and then checked it this evening.

[delboy]

Are you sure it was vinegar and not some other taste ie TCP taste?

[ni9e]

Definatley vinegar tasting and horrible aftertaste

[Barley Water]

Well you have a nice little infection going on there (but I can't remember which bug gives you the vinagar taste but then, it doesn't really matter). Your description of procedures makes me think that you are not boiling the malt extracts after you get them out of their packaging (although I could be wrong there, it may just be the way you are explaining what you did). Anyhow, you should be boiling the wort for at least an hour (I usually go for 1 1/2 hours but I do AG). There is no way that any bug can live in anything that has been boiled that long. After boiling, make sure that anything that touches the beer (and I mean anything) has been steralized. That includes spoons, tubing, fermentor,bottles and even the bottlecaps. Your equipment most likely has the bug as you seem to be getting the same problem twice in a row so clean the hell out of everything (most brewers are really anal about the cleaning thing). Finally, don't beat yourself up to badly over the whole deal, every brewer I know has had infection problems at least once in their career. I remember once giving a friend a bottle of homebrew that was so infected, it came streaming out his nose when he tried to drink it. Although I was not happy about it at the time, in retrospect it was funny as hell.

[ni9e]

Everything that I use is sterilized after I use it and just before I use it again I use a bowl of sterilized water to store equipment while brewing then fully rinsing before use.

You are right I did not boil the wort as instructions never mentioned boiling just to add to boiling water and mix thoroughly which I did.

FV was left standing 24 hours in VWP solution made up as described with extra just to make sure then rinsed and left to dry then sterilized again for 2hrs then rinsed out seconds before wort was added so any infection from first disaster should have been well removed.

Do you need to boil kits if so how long for?

[ni9e]

I am using new equipment use three times and steralized as above after every use.

The kit tin was placed in boiling water to soften but not sterilized as such and tin opener was new and put in sterilizer while waiting to be used.

[ni9e]

Yes it was and had a good best before date just been thinking though could infection cause stuck fermentation?

Also is the spraymalt in the BKE fermentable?

[Horden Hillbilly]

What terrible luck you are having there ni9e. It seems that you are sterilising everything ok at the start of your brew, could the problem be occurring during the fermentation? Is there some sort of "nasty" ie a fly, finding it's way into your brew? I lost a brew myself due to this happening a few years ago.

Have a look at the lager kit brewing section on my website to compare your brewing method to mine

http://uk-homebrew.tripod.com/

I have brewed from kits for many years now & my methods are well tried & tested. Hope you get it sorted soon.

[ni9e]

There is nothing that can get in the lid is sealed and the airlock will keep creepy crawlies out will check your site out thanks.

[SiHoltye]

Good luck Ni9e! Once identified I'm the source can be neutralized. All I'd add is read through the Hints & Tips and Kits tabs above again. We've most of use newbies pulled our hair out once or twice with this bloody hobby, but with doggedness I'm sure we'll sort it.

[Martin the fish]

Sounds like your having a small patch of bad luck dood.

Only thing i could add is that you may not be rinsing well enough. Your certainly sterilising everything.
If at first you don't succeed, brew and brew again

[Barley Water]

I guess I stand corrected. Over here, what we call a kit consists of a can of liquid malt and some dried yeast. If I were going to brew with extracts, I would always get the non-hopped variety so I could control bitterness, flavor and aroma and I would definately boil for at least an hour (regardless of what it says on the can). You gain three things doing that, one it increases the hop utilization two you kill any organisims that might spoil your beer and finally you precipitate out the hot break. Of course, I have been participating in this hobby for a couple of decades so maybe I am just old fashioned and tradition bound.

We have this product over here they call "Mr. Beer". It consists of a plastic jar with a spout in the bottom that kind of looks like a beer barrel (I suppose it sells better that way). They peddle these baby cans of extract to be used in this "beer barrel" and I notice they have different styles you can purchase. I just assumed you boiled the wort before putting it in the barrel but maybe not based on Daab's comments. These things sell like mad at Christmas and we always get new club members in January who want to learn to brew using these devices. I just hate these damn things because I believe that anytime you get somebody involved in a new hobby, it is very important that they have at least a little success quickly so as not to get discouraged. The big problem with these things is that because of the tap in the bottom, they are hard to get really clean (along with the fact that they are plastic). We got a new guy last year who was complaining about his first batch tasting lousy. He had brought with him a sample of his second batch saying that he thought this one came out better. After tasting it, we all came to the conclusion that he better drink the second batch quickly because we could all taste the infection that was there and of course it would only get worse. I just killed me seeing the look on his face when he realized that we were right and he still had a problem. The original poster's comments reminded me alot of that situation.

Although I always do all grain, I think one can make very fine beer with extracts (I know of at least one best of show that was extract in a very large competition). I am sure that it is possible to make a beer with the "Mr. Beer" kit that is not infected, however the chance for problems by an inexperienced person is pretty high. If they are making "kits" that you don't even need to boil, I seriously question how good the beer is that these kits produce. I don't think that a neophyte is well served by selling him/her a product that has a high chance for a problem. Sometimes in an effort to make something easy, too much is sacrificed at the alter of expediency (ok, I will now get the hell off of my soapbox).

[Barley Water]

Not a problem, I did not realize that there was such a thing as a no boil kit. I hope my little rant did not put off the original poster and I also don't want to come off like an all grain snob.

For what it's worth though, people who get involved in this hobby quickly find that they become very particular about the beer they drink. To that end, I would encourage any new guys reading this stuff to find a local club and learn what they can from the experienced members. You will quickly find out what techniqes make for good beer and which ones don't. It will really shorten the learning curve and get you drinking and making the really good stuff quicker. The best part about the whole deal though is that it is really fun and making the good stuff is no more expensive than making swill (buying equipment though can be another story).