At first I though I was just having the dreaded "Woodfordes Stuck" problem but I have since moved on to other kits. As of today I have done 4 kits and all of them get stuck at around 1.020. I usually have a good initial fermentation process lasting 4-6 days but then - stuck. The last couple of I have stirred, shook and moved to secondary but nothing would move. I eventually added some dry beer enzyme and that kicked it off, but as a result, the brews tastes wrong.
The latest is a Mountmellick porter and its been at 1.020 for 4 days now and I just moved it to secondary. Will dry beer enzyme into this effect the taste like it did with the other brews?
Also, anyone any idea why this may be happening? All the kits are fermenting at a pretty steady temperature between 18-20 degrees.
Why are all my brews getting stuck?
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Waffty
- Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:39 pm
- Location: Peoples Republic of Dudley
Are you using kit yeast ? If so, give Safe04 a try. What temp do you pitch your yeast ? I tend to pitch at 20 to 24 (when using Safe04). Do you start your yeast before pitching?
Also, do you airate the wort before pitching, I give mine a good 3 to 5 minute going over with my paddle, until the foam is almost splashing over.
As for temp, are you sure it's really constant at 18 to 20 degrees i.e use a max/min thermometer, just in case i.e my first brew keep contant, until the early hours, when it dropped like a stone.
If the brew does get stuck, a gentle stur with a stanitised spoon usually helps (no splashing etc), to get the yeast back up an working.
Hope this helps & keep the faith.
Darren
Also, do you airate the wort before pitching, I give mine a good 3 to 5 minute going over with my paddle, until the foam is almost splashing over.
As for temp, are you sure it's really constant at 18 to 20 degrees i.e use a max/min thermometer, just in case i.e my first brew keep contant, until the early hours, when it dropped like a stone.
If the brew does get stuck, a gentle stur with a stanitised spoon usually helps (no splashing etc), to get the yeast back up an working.
Hope this helps & keep the faith.
Darren
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nil_fhios_agam
It doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything wrong. I did much the same thing for years in the 70s with cheap kits and never had a stuck fermentation.
This seems to be a new phenomenon - it must be down to the balance of the malt extract used in the kits; you need a well dodgy yeast to have trouble getting a normal strength wort to ferment out.
This seems to be a new phenomenon - it must be down to the balance of the malt extract used in the kits; you need a well dodgy yeast to have trouble getting a normal strength wort to ferment out.
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Zonked
Jim has hit the nail on the head here.Jim wrote:It doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything wrong. I did much the same thing for years in the 70s with cheap kits and never had a stuck fermentation.
This seems to be a new phenomenon - it must be down to the balance of the malt extract used in the kits; you need a well dodgy yeast to have trouble getting a normal strength wort to ferment out.
I've also had this problem with the last 4 brews with Brupaks Fixby Gold & Linthwaite Light (& before that Wherry) - constantly stuck at 1018. I use Safale 04, optimum temps & a hellish thrashing of the wort!. However after kegging & 6 weeks + maturing the Brupaks kits do actually taste great & they are not a weak ale!
I've not had any fermentation problems with any ciders or "lagers" indeed I sometimes use the kit yeasts on Turbo ciders & they don't present a primary fermentation problem.
Last edited by Zonked on Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gepa
i have only done 3 kits and only had problems with one. I always use the yeast that comes with the kit and I am able to hit the numbers not too bad just leave it for a bit. Once I pitch I check on it after 24 hours then only check on it every 48 hours and I dont start taking my readings until at least 7 days have passed.
My last kit which was coopers ale I Pitched it at about 1am on the 9th and I kegged it today at 3am on the 19th August. It started at 1042 and has been at 1002 for the last 3 days. I sneaked a quick half while keggin it and it tasted Great. now to keep it in the Brewing Temp for 10 days as I am off on my hols until the 30th Then to give it a quick chill and start drinking it on the night of the 30th.
Wooohooo to homebrew Beer.
My last kit which was coopers ale I Pitched it at about 1am on the 9th and I kegged it today at 3am on the 19th August. It started at 1042 and has been at 1002 for the last 3 days. I sneaked a quick half while keggin it and it tasted Great. now to keep it in the Brewing Temp for 10 days as I am off on my hols until the 30th Then to give it a quick chill and start drinking it on the night of the 30th.
Wooohooo to homebrew Beer.
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sparky Paul
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nil_fhios_agam
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sparky Paul
Well, it was worth a try... 
Obviously the Woodeforde's and Mountmellick are both Munton's manufactured kits, what were the other two? Munton's certainly seem to be the worst culprits.
Also, do you add any water treatment, campden tablet, etc.? I never need to, and have never had a stuck... although I did have a close call with the last Wherry, which needed a rouse to finish.
Obviously the Woodeforde's and Mountmellick are both Munton's manufactured kits, what were the other two? Munton's certainly seem to be the worst culprits.
Also, do you add any water treatment, campden tablet, etc.? I never need to, and have never had a stuck... although I did have a close call with the last Wherry, which needed a rouse to finish.
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Graham
They are all made by Muntons, no matter what is printed on the label. Muntons have the last malt extract plant left in Britain that deals with home brewing. Even kits that are reputedly Belgian are (I believe) made by Muntons.sparky Paul wrote:Obviously the Woodeforde's and Mountmellick are both Munton's manufactured kits, what were the other two? Munton's certainly seem to be the worst culprits.
Also, do you add any water treatment, campden tablet, etc.? I never need to, and have never had a stuck... although I did have a close call with the last Wherry, which needed a rouse to finish.
I doubt if a campden tablet will make much difference; it seems to be the universal cure-all for all ailments.
Water quality is worth thinking about though. Perhaps high alkalinity does something.
Insufficient aeration maybe.
On the other hand, my guess is that the wort is deficient in something that the yeast needs. Magnesium maybe (Epsom salts). Zinc maybe (Dunno what you'd do there if you have not got a zinc-based yeast nutrient). B-complex vitamins - teaspoonful of Marmite (yes really), or an OXO cube.
There has to be an answer because not everybody suffers from it and Muntons deny that a problem exists. They do guarantee that their malt extract has a minimum fermentablity of 63%, so they are probably justified.
It would be interesting to know if Brupaks Yeast Vit has zinc in it, if it does, then it would be the answer to all the maladies above. If that doesn't work, then will probablyl be high alkalinity. If it isn't that, then it is definately Muntons fault.
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sparky Paul
Being more specific, it seems to be the Munton's two-can 100% extract kits that cause the problems. Few people seem to have any difficulty with one can kits with sugar/spraymalt, particularly the imported Cooper's kits - I don't think I've ever heard of a stuck Cooper's.
It's difficult to nail something down as the cause, as you say Graham some people have no problems, but for some it seems to be a constant battle. There must be some difference in local conditions, such as method, water treatment, or water quality, although it's entirely possible that some deficiency in the extract could be a catalyst. Differences in water pH is a definite possibility.
I don't think it's method, as some members have put far more effort into aeration, etc., than I do, and still have further problems.
The only clues I have is that Yeast-Vit doesn't work for everyone, but Dry Beer Enzyme almost certainly always does - but unfortunately it also has an undesirable effect, it goes too far and the beer ends up too thin and dry. All I know about DBE is that it converts the unfermentable dextrins into sugars, I'm not sure if it produces anything else to assist the yeast... However, it does lead me to think that the residual yeast is fine, it's just that it has run out of stuff to ferment.
It's difficult to nail something down as the cause, as you say Graham some people have no problems, but for some it seems to be a constant battle. There must be some difference in local conditions, such as method, water treatment, or water quality, although it's entirely possible that some deficiency in the extract could be a catalyst. Differences in water pH is a definite possibility.
I don't think it's method, as some members have put far more effort into aeration, etc., than I do, and still have further problems.
The only clues I have is that Yeast-Vit doesn't work for everyone, but Dry Beer Enzyme almost certainly always does - but unfortunately it also has an undesirable effect, it goes too far and the beer ends up too thin and dry. All I know about DBE is that it converts the unfermentable dextrins into sugars, I'm not sure if it produces anything else to assist the yeast... However, it does lead me to think that the residual yeast is fine, it's just that it has run out of stuff to ferment.
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Graham
It really does point to a fault with the fermentability of Muntons kits, as you say.
The fact that dry beer enzyme almost always works is a positive indication that the sugar-balance of their kits is up the creek.
It would not be so apparent with the single-can kits because the lack of fermentability of the extract would be masked by the added cane sugar, which is 100% fermentable. In fact, such kits would be improved by the poor fermentability of the extract and compensate for some of the lost body.
It is amazing that someone like Muntons can get it so wrong, so consistently. You would have to work hard to get the sugars that far out of balance. Perhaps it is done deliberately for the benefit of single-can kits, but somehow the same stuff ends up in the no-sugar kits.
The fact that dry beer enzyme almost always works is a positive indication that the sugar-balance of their kits is up the creek.
It would not be so apparent with the single-can kits because the lack of fermentability of the extract would be masked by the added cane sugar, which is 100% fermentable. In fact, such kits would be improved by the poor fermentability of the extract and compensate for some of the lost body.
It is amazing that someone like Muntons can get it so wrong, so consistently. You would have to work hard to get the sugars that far out of balance. Perhaps it is done deliberately for the benefit of single-can kits, but somehow the same stuff ends up in the no-sugar kits.
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BlackBag
Very interested in what you've said Graham about Munton's having the only malt extract plant in Britain. That I did not know. On a separate posting, Big Business, I've been trying to work out how many different kit manufacturers there were. I had come to the conclusion that there were probably only 3 (in Britain), Ritchies, Youngs, and Muntons. Having said that I did start out with the cynical notion that Muntons might be the only player and that all we were buying with our kits (of a type) was different packaging. I'd love to be able to get my hands on conclusive proof that all the different brands do have different recipes. Sorry, I'm just a frustrated, die hard, sceptical cynic.
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Graham
Ten years or so ago, there were several kit manufacturers.
Muntons
EDME
Brewing Products, Kirkliston.
Wander Foods (of Ovaltine fame), Hunton Bridge
British Diamalt
and one or two others.
Vina, Youngs, Ritchie are wholesalers and their own-brands were made by one of the above.
Wander foods were taken over and moved abroad, and their beer-kit brands (Geordie I think) were taken over by Muntons.
I did not see the going of Brewing Products, but they went, unnoticed by me. I guess Muntons have their brands too.
EDME went and their beer kit brands were taken over by Muntons, their bakery products taken over by Diamalt.
Earlier this year we lost Diamalt, which took Vina down with them.
Richie, Youngs, and Brupaks kits are all now made by Muntons. The Muntons portfolio now consists of most of the old-time major brands and a few minor. They even took over a small Irish manufacturer, whose name escapes me a the moment.
I am pretty sure that Muntons have the last malt extract plant that deals with beer kits, although there must be others around that supply bakeries and other food products. One of the requirements of a beer kit manufacturer is that he must have a canning line, of course.
There is no way that all the kits out there are different - there are far too many and not enough recipe variations to go round. With quality kits at least, they are restricted by can size as to the original gravity produced. Cans are standard. All beers of the same can size will have the same original gravity, and that makes them all much of a muchness to begin with. I doubt if the market is big enough to have separate production runs for each brand. I would guess that many brands will be something else with a different label, particularly own brands.
Muntons
EDME
Brewing Products, Kirkliston.
Wander Foods (of Ovaltine fame), Hunton Bridge
British Diamalt
and one or two others.
Vina, Youngs, Ritchie are wholesalers and their own-brands were made by one of the above.
Wander foods were taken over and moved abroad, and their beer-kit brands (Geordie I think) were taken over by Muntons.
I did not see the going of Brewing Products, but they went, unnoticed by me. I guess Muntons have their brands too.
EDME went and their beer kit brands were taken over by Muntons, their bakery products taken over by Diamalt.
Earlier this year we lost Diamalt, which took Vina down with them.
Richie, Youngs, and Brupaks kits are all now made by Muntons. The Muntons portfolio now consists of most of the old-time major brands and a few minor. They even took over a small Irish manufacturer, whose name escapes me a the moment.
I am pretty sure that Muntons have the last malt extract plant that deals with beer kits, although there must be others around that supply bakeries and other food products. One of the requirements of a beer kit manufacturer is that he must have a canning line, of course.
There is no way that all the kits out there are different - there are far too many and not enough recipe variations to go round. With quality kits at least, they are restricted by can size as to the original gravity produced. Cans are standard. All beers of the same can size will have the same original gravity, and that makes them all much of a muchness to begin with. I doubt if the market is big enough to have separate production runs for each brand. I would guess that many brands will be something else with a different label, particularly own brands.
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BlackBag