SECONEDARY FERMENTATION

[micromaniac]

HI I AM FAIRLY NEW TO HOME BREW AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW,IF I SECONEDARY FERMENT MY BEER KIT FOR TWO WEEKS TO CLEAR IT A LITTLE MORE.WILL IT NOT BE TOTALY FLAT BY THE TIME I PUT IT IN MY KEG?PS I HAVE A LOAD OF STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THIS TO ASK AS I WANT TO PLAY AROUND WITH VARIOUS KITS TO TRY AND IMPROVE ON TASTE AND AROMA MOSTLY USING TOM CAX AND WHERRY REAL ALE SO FAR.

[Ditch]

As, by ye own implication, ye haven't got a clue what ye doing; Why not seek out the best kits and just do as they say, then enjoy damn good beer by default?

Where is this movement stemming from, to buy kits and, straight away, without even making them up, proclaim that here is the man to " Improve " them? Is there a " MessWithPerfectlyGoodKits.com " we haven't heard of yet?

I'd suggest, if ye want to mess about with 'Adjuncts' and so forth? Go straight to All Grain and chuck what ever ye fancy over ye shoulder. Kits are meant to be what they are. If one doesn't please ye? Ye just make up a different kit.

Honestly. It really Is that simple. That's why we do it

[cwrw gwent]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. The only things I would add to Ditch's observations are;

a) One thing you should use from the beginning is malt extract in place of sugar. It gives better body and flavour. You can substitute it 100% for sugar or use 50% malt extract/50% sugar or whatever proportion suits your wallet and palate. I prefer to use the dry spraymalt but lots of people like liquid malt extract.

b) I don't bother putting the ale into another vessel to clear. If brewed correctly, beer will clear eventually whether in bottle or barrel. It's more important to leave it to mature for quite some time (and gain a depth of flavour) rather than consume it as soon as it's clear. Take your time.

[Ditch]

cwrw gwent; Thanks for stitching on the most obvious thing I'd overlooked to mention. Frankly; I was rushed, and so trying not to sound like I was taking another newb's head off .....

I really don't mean to seem untoward to these poor souls. It's just how I seem to come across some times. I either say so much they get drowned in it. Or I'm 'abrupt' and so come across as sharp. Not at all. I just imagine them hanging on for an answer and so spit one out sometimes, with better will than presentation.

Anyway; Malt instead of the dread sugar? Too right! What I can't understand is; When the hell are the kit producers ever going to Stop telling the buyer to sling a load of 'Silver Spoon' in there? Why do they still do that? It's on a par with releasing a great film on VHS! We've learned and moved on. No one does that any more.

Come to think of it; Micromaniac there may have dreamed up his own, brilliant new concept, look. Come bowling in here telling us all how he'd cracked the Better Pint. Saying we should all be using dried malt, instead of sugar That's got to happen, one of these days!

[micromaniac]

THANKS FOR HELP WITH SECONED FERMENT QUESTION WILL DO .WHEN I SAID I WANTED TO MESS ABOUT WITH KITS ,WHAT I MENT WAS I WOULD LIKE TO GET MORE OF A HOPY FLAVOUR TO MY FINNISHED BREW. I AM NOW ONLY BUYING TWO TIN KITS AND STILL DO NOT SEEM TO GET THE RESULT I WOULD LIKE. MY NEXT STEP WAS TO TRY DRY HOPING IN MY KEG.I HAVE THREE KEGS AND MY BREW IS USUALY THREE MONTHS OLD WHEN I DRINK IT DO U THINK THIS WOULD HELP AS I DO NOT WANT THE HASSLE OF GRAIN BREWING.THANKS AGAIN

Hi, and welcome to the forum. The only things I would add to Ditch's observations are;

a) One thing you should use from the beginning is malt extract in place of sugar. It gives better body and flavour. You can substitute it 100% for sugar or use 50% malt extract/50% sugar or whatever proportion suits your wallet and palate. I prefer to use the dry spraymalt but lots of people like liquid malt extract.

b) I don't bother putting the ale into another vessel to clear. If brewed correctly, beer will clear eventually whether in bottle or barrel. It's more important to leave it to mature for quite some time (and gain a depth of flavour) rather than consume it as soon as it's clear. Take your time.

[micromaniac]

WELL THAT TOLD ME;ALL I,M REALY AFTER IS MORE HOP FLAVOUR IN END RESULT.AND I DO KNOW WHAT I,M DOING AS FAR AS KITS GO BUT HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF TWEEKING THEM UNTILL NOW

As, by ye own implication, ye haven't got a clue what ye doing; Why not seek out the best kits and just do as they say, then enjoy damn good beer by default?

Where is this movement stemming from, to buy kits and, straight away, without even making them up, proclaim that here is the man to " Improve " them? Is there a " MessWithPerfectlyGoodKits.com " we haven't heard of yet?

I'd suggest, if ye want to mess about with 'Adjuncts' and so forth? Go straight to All Grain and chuck what ever ye fancy over ye shoulder. Kits are meant to be what they are. If one doesn't please ye? Ye just make up a different kit.

Honestly. It really Is that simple. That's why we do it

[Barm]

Hey microman - and actually: not such dumb questions for a n00b.

Re the hoppy thing - IMO dead right; I reckon much of the hop character is lost during the condensation process used to make the kit extracts. Dry hopping is one way to restore it for sure; but 2 problems:
a) dry hopping is very inefficient - you have to use a fair handful of (expensive!!) hops because the extraction rate is poor
b) if you leave the hops in for too long they can leave a nasty grassy aroma and taste. I note you're leaving your brews for an extended maturation before drinking - so you could suffer with this. One way round it is actually to use a secondary fermenter vessel - exactly as you initially suggested - and dry hop in this for a few weeks. Then remove the hops and keg as normal.

or, try "messing around with kits"!!!! Despite previous opinion to the contrary - this is great fun and can give you some fabulous results at a fraction of the cost and aggro of all-grain. Several good books on the subject of adapted kit brewing: eg 'Clonebrews' (Szamatulski), 'Great Beer From Kits' (Fisher & Fisher).
For restoring hop aroma you can steep say 15g hops in around 1-2L hot water (just off the boil) for a couple of minutes and then strain the liquor through a muslin (and sparge through with more hot water) into your freshly made-up wort (before topping up to the mark with cold water). If you want more hop flavour as well, you can boil say 5-10g hops for about 10mins before adding the above-mentioned 'finishing' hops.

[micromaniac]

THANKS ,THATS MORE LIKE THE HELP I WAS HOPIN FOR .I,M STILL NOT SURE IF I DRY HOP IN THE SECONED FV DO I ADD ANY MORE SUGAR AT THIS PIONT OR DO I WAIT UNTILL I PUT IT INTO THE KEG.IF I DONT ADD SUGAR AT THIS PIONT WILL IT CARBONATE WHEN I ADD SUGAR TO KEG IT AL : SO COULD I USE SPRAY MALT INSTEAD OF SUGAR.

Hey microman - and actually: not such dumb questions for a n00b.

Re the hoppy thing - IMO dead right; I reckon much of the hop character is lost during the condensation process used to make the kit extracts. Dry hopping is one way to restore it for sure; but 2 problems:
a) dry hopping is very inefficient - you have to use a fair handful of (expensive!!) hops because the extraction rate is poor
b) if you leave the hops in for too long they can leave a nasty grassy aroma and taste. I note you're leaving your brews for an extended maturation before drinking - so you could suffer with this. One way round it is actually to use a secondary fermenter vessel - exactly as you initially suggested - and dry hop in this for a few weeks. Then remove the hops and keg as normal.

or, try "messing around with kits"!!!! Despite previous opinion to the contrary - this is great fun and can give you some fabulous results at a fraction of the cost and aggro of all-grain. Several good books on the subject of adapted kit brewing: eg 'Clonebrews' (Szamatulski), 'Great Beer From Kits' (Fisher & Fisher).
For restoring hop aroma you can steep say 15g hops in around 1-2L hot water (just off the boil) for a couple of minutes and then strain the liquor through a muslin (and sparge through with more hot water) into your freshly made-up wort (before topping up to the mark with cold water). If you want more hop flavour as well, you can boil say 5-10g hops for about 10mins before adding the above-mentioned 'finishing' hops.

[Trunky]

[Barm]

Do not add any sugar/malt etc to the SV. Just the hops - best put these in a tied muslin bag weighted down with something inert (eg some heavy glass marbles), or use a 'tea-ball' - see ebay.

Then after a couple of weeks in the SV just prime your keg as normal and transfer the brew - there will be enough yeast still in suspension to get carbonation going. No real point in using anything except sugar for priming; you could experiment with different types though eg raw/golden or brown instead of plain white.

[micromaniac]

great will try this got a tea ball on order from amazon and a pack of nortern brewer hops

Do not add any sugar/malt etc to the SV. Just the hops - best put these in a tied muslin bag weighted down with something inert (eg some heavy glass marbles), or use a 'tea-ball' - see ebay.

Then after a couple of weeks in the SV just prime your keg as normal and transfer the brew - there will be enough yeast still in suspension to get carbonation going. No real point in using anything except sugar for priming; you could experiment with different types though eg raw/golden or brown instead of plain white.

[micromaniac]

oops, not doin to well a i

One other top tip, have you noticed that you're CAPS LOCK is stuck on? On-line that's seen as "shouting"