Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

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gobuchul
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Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by gobuchul » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm

First time I have used all pellets for a brew in my Grainfather.

250g of low AA Saaz pellets.

The wort was incredibly cloudy, I have never seen anything when using an immersion chiller, as I guess that the pellet sediment drops out as part of the cold break, which doesn't happen with a counterflow chiller.

Question is, will this all just drop out into the yeast cake? I don't mind a cloudy IPA but it's not really right for a lager!

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Kev888
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Kev888 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:17 pm

Yes pellets making it into the FV should mostly drop out.

In themselves, modest quantities don't normally cause much haze (at this stage), but they tend to be less good as a filter bed than whole hops. So I suspect the haze you're seeing could be partly/mostly from hot break and tiny grain debris also getting through (in addition to the usual cold break). This isn't ideal, but visually speaking it too will normally drop out.
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by orlando » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 pm

If you can hold the beer, after fermentation, for a long lagering period at <5c then Kev is right it should drop out. As long as it is hop "debris" and nothing else, which at this stage is unlikely, you'll be fine. You also have an option to use finings to help if needs be. Although 250g is not that "modest". :D If you used copper finings, like Irish Moss or Protafloc then leaving the wort to settle for longer before running off may leave even more behind, so take a look at that next time.
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by HTH1975 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:26 pm

250g is a lot of hops for homebrew - what size batch are you brewing?

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Kev888 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:17 am

orlando wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 pm
Although 250g is not that "modest". :D
Heh, sorry - I meant modest amounts being transferred to the FV! I was assuming most of them would be left in the kettle.

But yes, it is a generous amount for a GF sized batch, so may well have contributed haze that the boil and finings couldn't get.
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Robwalkeragain » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:49 pm

Nobles are underrated for pale beers imo. I brew one with loads of Tettnang and it's absolutely lush!
It will drop out, you are introducing more polyphenols to the beer with a large hopping rate, so more particles for proteins to bond with and create a haze. Get it nice and cold and if it doesn't clear enough, add a fining and it'll fall right out. The haze low tasting and aromaless so don't worry too much.

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Dave S » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 pm

gobuchul wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm
First time I have used all pellets for a brew in my Grainfather.

250g of low AA Saaz pellets.

The wort was incredibly cloudy, I have never seen anything when using an immersion chiller, as I guess that the pellet sediment drops out as part of the cold break, which doesn't happen with a counterflow chiller.

Question is, will this all just drop out into the yeast cake? I don't mind a cloudy IPA but it's not really right for a lager!
I usually recirculate through the CFC to get the temp down 50-60C as this is the ideal temp for the cold break to precipitate. Then leave to settle for 30 mins before running off to the FV.
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Kingfisher4 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:00 pm

Dave S wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 pm
gobuchul wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm
First time I have used all pellets for a brew in my Grainfather.

250g of low AA Saaz pellets.

The wort was incredibly cloudy, I have never seen anything when using an immersion chiller, as I guess that the pellet sediment drops out as part of the cold break, which doesn't happen with a counterflow chiller.

Question is, will this all just drop out into the yeast cake? I don't mind a cloudy IPA but it's not really right for a lager!
I usually recirculate through the CFC to get the temp down 50-60C as this is the ideal temp for the cold break to precipitate. Then leave to settle for 30 mins before running off to the FV.
Sounds sensible but in my limited GF brewing experience so far this also extends the brew day by about an hour!
Last couple of batches I’ve used brewbrite in addition to britewort and without the benefit of temperature control for my FV, the chill haze has disappeared so maybe that’s an alternative without extending the brew day??

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Dave S » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:31 pm

Kingfisher4 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:00 pm
Dave S wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 pm
gobuchul wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm
First time I have used all pellets for a brew in my Grainfather.

250g of low AA Saaz pellets.

The wort was incredibly cloudy, I have never seen anything when using an immersion chiller, as I guess that the pellet sediment drops out as part of the cold break, which doesn't happen with a counterflow chiller.

Question is, will this all just drop out into the yeast cake? I don't mind a cloudy IPA but it's not really right for a lager!
I usually recirculate through the CFC to get the temp down 50-60C as this is the ideal temp for the cold break to precipitate. Then leave to settle for 30 mins before running off to the FV.
Sounds sensible but in my limited GF brewing experience so far this also extends the brew day by about an hour!
Last couple of batches I’ve used brewbrite in addition to britewort and without the benefit of temperature control for my FV, the chill haze has disappeared so maybe that’s an alternative without extending the brew day??
Aagh, you impatient lot :) . In the early days since the introduction of the GF many people bought one as a means of reducing their brew day time. That was never the case for me, I don't mind how long it takes, (within reason) it's the quality of the wort that important for me.
Best wishes

Dave

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by chris2012 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:37 pm

Dave - just curious you say ' I usually recirculate through the CFC to get the temp down 50-60C as this is the ideal temp for the cold break to precipitate. Then leave to settle for 30 mins before running off to the FV.' - is that right regarding the temp? or is 50-60 in Fahrenheit ?

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Dave S » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 pm

chris2012 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:37 pm
Dave - just curious you say ' I usually recirculate through the CFC to get the temp down 50-60C as this is the ideal temp for the cold break to precipitate. Then leave to settle for 30 mins before running off to the FV.' - is that right regarding the temp? or is 50-60 in Fahrenheit ?

Cheers
50-60C, (Celsius) is when the cold break starts to drop out of solution.
Best wishes

Dave

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by chris2012 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Ah cheers I didn't realise that.

So you leave it 30 mins or so to drop from 50/60C to pitching temp?

Does that work better than chilling the wort straight to say 18C?

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by orlando » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:22 pm

chris2012 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:59 pm
Ah cheers I didn't realise that.

So you leave it 30 mins or so to drop from 50/60C to pitching temp?

Does that work better than chilling the wort straight to say 18C?

The method I use is drop to 80c then steep/whirlpool for 30-60 minutes, chill to pitching temp or just above then let the kettle finings coagulate the proteins and tannins before running off your by now crystal clear wort, typically 30 mnutes or so later. Like Dave I don't want to rush things if it compromises the process and in turn the Beer. But then again me and him are old farts who prefer clear Beer. :D
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: I Am A Patriot (Lacons Patriot clone)
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Up Next: Twist & Stout, Reasons To Be Beerful (Part Two)
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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by gobuchul » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:38 am

Well I did another brew yesterday, a strong, hoppy IPA with 230g of hop pellets.
These were mainly Amarillo with a bit of Chinook for bittering.
I recirced through the chiller and back into the Grainfather until I got down to 60c, didn't take too long to get there. Then I left it for 30 minutes or so. Then dropped into the fermenter at pitching temperature.
The wort was a lot clearer than the previous brew.

However, the pellets did behave differently from the Saaz pellets. The Saaz pellets broke up into very fine particles and spread across the top of wort the moment I dropped them in, very visible and a pea green colour. Something I haven't noticed before. The Amarillo did not break up in the same manner.

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Re: Hazy wort from pellets in Grainfather

Post by Kingfisher4 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:09 am

No problem extending the brewday at all for increased quality but some of the variations I have tried so far haven’t noticeably improved the final beer despite prolonged brew days.

My 2 brews so far with pellets have both been less satisfactory in different ways than whole hops, the latter seem to me to act as a much better filter to give great clear wort.

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