has the single pot killed the three pot systems

[hedgerow pete]

as a returning newbie but long term brewer i see my old system of three vessels is now being replaced with single pots and stainless steel.

but is it worth me upgrading my older set up ( that does need replacing as its very old) for the newer systems. i was looking at costs which is a big factor but so is amount of use,my old stuff does need to get replaced, but if i am going to throw £200 at new pots do i replace with one large one, is there a cost point where three pots become more expensive than one pot and volume of brews, we normally brew once every three of four weeks and 25 litres at a time, i see with single pots i have to do less at 22l or 20 litres, so i have to increase quantity of brews to keep up.

my biggest bug has to be computers and computer controls, got to be honest i am not a fan of electronics and gizmos, so we are now looking with a small wallet at none gizmo versions or replacing a three pot system, costs are roughly the same but do these modern single system needs to be used often to break even on out lays

[vacant]

If on a budget but your kit needs replacing I suggest BIAB with a plastic bucket or a secondhand mango chutney barrel as a boiler.

I still have my single pot BIAB system from 2008. 60 ltr plastic bucket like this one, couple of elements from supermarket 2kW budget kettles and a net curtain to hold grain, kept in place with bungees around the rim. £35 should cover it. I've sometimes done 40ltr brews. Very easy to build one like this if you can do a bit of safe wiring.

Ready-built - I've been selling off my two-vessel stuff, there's still a 50 ltr stainless boiler with two elements and a couple of spares for sale £70 (pick up only).

[Jocky]

I don't think any one way of doing things invalidates another. It very much depends what you're into the hobby for.

If you like the process of sparging and getting efficiency then 3 vessel is for you. If you just want simplicity then a single big pot and BIAB bag is the way forward. When moving to all grain I started with BIAB to dip my toe into the water, and loved it so much I bought a decent 3 vessel setup.

If you want to make 25 litres at a time you can, you just need a pot big enough for it - I'd imagine vacant's 50 litre steel pot would do the job.

[mozza]

Don’t forget two vessel systems

[hedgerow pete]

i love the idea of your boiler, i cant message you right now as a newbie, i work near Bristol in the week and go home at the weekend, so collection would be monday night to thursday night, email me on "petesjunkaccount@live.co.uk"

Mozza, i think i am two vessell right now as all i own is a mash tun made from aa plastic bucket and celotex wrapping with a tap in the bottom of it
and a boiler which is also a plastic bucket and apair of kettle elemnets, both well used and both 14 years old and very brittle now.

i have been looking at buying a cool box to convert and stripping the elements out, but as its so old i did decide to replace the whole lot.

Thing is BIAB has been improved on and these new single machines have come out as well. if you add two 50l stainless pots £100 ish, the twin coil cooler is 10mm copper pipe but the fitting are expensive, £1 each ish, plus taps, tank fittings sight glass set up and a new pid controller system.

your into the best part of £300 ish for that i can buy one of the cheaper all in one systems which to me being a newbie is a BIAB system but with a metal bag.

where i am stuck is do i spend the money one way or another and does it make sence to spend that much coin on the amount that i brew

[Dennis King]

I recently bought a Grainfather after 40 years of 3V brewing. The main reason being as I'm getting slightly longer in the tooth I am looking for an easier life. I wanted to stop lifting containers of water to shelves etc. Yes I know I could have set up pumps but in the end with the Maltmillers black Friday sale I took the plunge and have been very impressed. At the moment I only use the controls manually and have not connected to my phone or computer and they are so straightforward even I can do it. It also cuts down the brewing day 1-2 hours.

[hedgerow pete]

I recently bought a Grainfather after 40 years of 3V brewing. The main reason being as I'm getting slightly longer in the tooth I am looking for an easier life. I wanted to stop lifting containers of water to shelves etc. Yes I know I could have set up pumps but in the end with the Maltmillers black Friday sale I took the plunge and have been very impressed. At the moment I only use the controls manually and have not connected to my phone or computer and they are so straightforward even I can do it. It also cuts down the brewing day 1-2 hours.

I did look into Grain fathers recently, but two main points killed it for me, one was cost, its just too far out of my budget plus on top all the extras and gas and fermzillas and so forth just kept running up the bill. the second pointer that killed it for me was the wifi- programming - digital interaction -computer stuff. its just not my scene. I have looked at the cheaper one pot kits out there sub £250 and they seem a good bet for me. BIAB is the same as these one pot sets with a metal "bag".

I am seriously thinking though its a lot of money to lay out plus the extras. I think i am better off in the old skool club and staying with a two vessel set up. I either stay as i am and muddle through or drop a couple of grand on new kit, i would rather spend the £2000 on kits and give up the pure AG set ups

I am going to steal a loadof ideas though, the cream colours solar water pumps and hoses would make my life a lot easier so would a few other items.

Staying with my novice pointof view ( very ignorant novice) first post as someone out of the loop for ten years staying with kits not so much AG.I do see these one stop shop machines driving a wedge into the brew hobby. every thing is either £200 or less or £1000 and upwards. theres very little equipment for the middle ground or a way to transfer from one price range to another.

i started and still use a cooler box and bucket kettle, from that i can step up to a stainless steel pot, but the next step is to bin the lot and buy a grain masterset up

for fermentorsi have 25llitre buckets or a wine 25litre barrel or a plastic pressure keg, the next step is then bottles or a plastic barrel,most of that is £25 ish each stuff. they sit in the shed or the house, sat in a muck tub water bucket and a fish tank heater. but if you buy a fermzillaor other make its a £150 jump plus say stainless £250, but you cant have a conical fermentor without a fridge and chamber stuff £200, best drop that £250 on gas too, you could actually say a fermentor is a £1000 expence

but the next step is a corney keg, say you buy one £60,plus gas reg £60 plus hoses and fittings and spund valves and so forth £100, so all of a sudden its either £25 or £250

years ago when i started this hobby you could buy a bucket and next month buy the next step and keep working upwards to improve and adjust the kit, okay so some jumps were £50-£100-£150 steps but it was still acheivable, i see that second step now as more of £500 or £1000. like i say, old eyes and a different point of view to the modern world

[Kev888]

There are lots of new products around, but this just means extra choice - there is no reason to buy any of it without good reason. In some cases there can be advantages, in others not at all; products solving non-existent problems. There is nothing obsolete about a 3-vessel system or bottles for instance, if that is what one prefers, it just depends on what suits you.

Of course, if you wanted to go out and buy a working, professionally made homebrew-level system then the chances are it would be a one-pot. Their wide availability is a key reason for their popularity, that and they're compact and also easier to brew by numbers with (or by app) for beginners. BIAB has also become very popular for people wanting a cheaper or DIY method, so all in all fewer people invest in making their own 3-vessel systems these days. But there are more quality components than ever available for doing so, or indeed making other DIY systems, if that is what one wishes to do.

There are lots of advanced home-brewers using 3v-systems, as well as one-pot systems. Anyone thinking the popularity of one-pots means they supersede 3-vessels in terms of the beer would be naive IMO. They can both make similarly good beer and both benefit from the brewer's expertise in achieving best results. It really is just down to preference and personal circumstances as to which suits best - brewing space, time, DIY skills and so on.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Q: (to @homebrew_pete) are you making objectively good beer on the system you have, or do you recall it making good beer when you were more active?

Q: is it good across all the styles of beer you like to make?

Q: are you finding it limiting in some way, i.e. it *cant* make particular styles of beer well, or it is unfun to do so?

If you are making good beer, across all the styles you want to make , and dont feel limited by your kit, why are you upgrading?

As shiny as the all in one kits are, they just make extract. I picked up an industrial catering urn (100L) for £200 second hand, and £20 brew bag and that was it. I added some valves and fittings and a pump to do recirculation and transfers, but that was it. Turns out 55L of extract at around 75% mash efficiency with no drama, some pulleys and cheap carabiners to lift the bag, and a £20 platform truck to move it around when its full. Thats my brewhouse.

I went mad on the fermentation side, with a 65L conical that i cooled with a DIY cooling jacket hooked up to a maxi cooler. THAT was the guts of £1000, and I have never been totally happy with it. A cheap fridge, an inkbird and a brewbuilder flat bottom fermenter would do a better, more reliable job for ~400. Plastic buckets and a cheap fridge would be under a hundred, and would probably make just as good beer with few exceptions (homebrew dump valves are less useful than conical vendors make them out to be).

If you are going to spend money, spend it in the areas that will see the biggest benefit. That may be fermentation, that may be yeast management, that may be a proper kegerator setup with variable dispense pressure per line, or a proper handpull setup for cask.

There are good reasons for the growth of the all in one market, but the key benefits are small footprint, shortened brewdays. People in small london flats are not doing 3V on their balcony.

[guypettigrew]

Of course, if you wanted to go out and buy a working, professionally made homebrew-level system then the chances are it would be a one-pot.

But they aren't really one pot systems, are they?

You'll need an HLT for the sparge water, so it's just one vessel you're saving on. Plus pumps if gravity isn't your way of moving liquor and wort around.

And a FV, of course. So even a three vessel system is a four vessel system!

Guy

[Kev888]

Yeah it can certainly be a misleading term. Though some would have it that they're capable of full-volume mashing and have a tube/pipe or basket rather than inner pot. Either way, homebrewers find their limits and want to sparge or get more grain in and so on, so the systems grow; the DIY spirit is still strong, in some!

[wezzel01]

Might be worth looking out for an early used Grainfather or Braumeister on eBay. They do come up from time to time. If you are not keen on programming timers etc. they can both be used manually.


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[Dennis King]

One thing I have noticed with the Grainfather is my efficiency has gone up.

[aamcle]

The GF types are two pots one inside the other it's very space efficient but if you use a pot to heat sparge water you right back to three pots.


Aamcle

[wezzel01]

The GF types are two pots one inside the other it's very space efficient but if you use a pot to heat sparge water you right back to three pots.


Aamcle

You don’t actually need to sparge though. I use a Braumeister and I just heat a saucepan of water to give the grains a final rinse but many don’t even do that as the systems are very efficient.


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