Apples...

[dean_wales]

Yeah, a lovely lady let me pick them for her. Will be dropping her in some free bottles later this evening in return.

I have done some more reading and can see that there are some examples of good cider out there being made with the right dessert apples. That combined with me wanting an easy drinking cider (insipid if you will!) means that I am going to ferment it all now and then start playing with powdered tannin, back sweetening and malic acid additions afterwards to taste.

Dean.

[crafty john]

Yeah, a lovely lady let me pick them for her. Will be dropping her in some free bottles later this evening in return.

I have done some more reading and can see that there are some examples of good cider out there being made with the right dessert apples. That combined with me wanting an easy drinking cider (insipid if you will!) means that I am going to ferment it all now and then start playing with powdered tannin, back sweetening and malic acid additions afterwards to taste.

Dean.

I never said insipid, I said Rank. I hope I am wrong

[dean_wales]

Hmmmm its been three days since I pitched the Nottingham and Safale SO4 now and there isnt any sign of activity...

I added two teaspoons of Young's Yeast Nutrient at pitching - was that enough?

After juicing I added 2 Camden tablets per gallon as per my book. Was that right? I left it 24-48 hours before pitching?

I am not as panic mad as I would be with beer as a wild ferment wouldn't be the end of the world but gutted that a fivers worth of yeast isnt doing anything yet!

Dean.

[jmc]

Hmmmm its been three days since I pitched the Nottingham and Safale SO4 now and there isnt any sign of activity...

I added two teaspoons of Young's Yeast Nutrient at pitching - was that enough?

After juicing I added 2 Camden tablets per gallon as per my book. Was that right? I left it 24-48 hours before pitching?

I am not as panic mad as I would be with beer as a wild ferment wouldn't be the end of the world but gutted that a fivers worth of yeast isnt doing anything yet!

Dean.

Hi Dean

Have you checked OG & current SG to see if anything's going on?

[Jambo]

Dean,

My cider has taken 6 days from pitching first yeast to starting fermenting! I also put in 2 Campden tabs per gallon and left almost 48 hrs before pitching.... I have since found other sources online that recommend only one tab per gallon. Over the 6 days before it started to ferment I added 5 sachets of yeast in total... Finally I used GV1 (used Young's Cider yeast first, and GV3 second) which seems to be able to tolerate higher ppms of Campden stuff and that maaaay be why it finally got it going. I was very worried for a while but it suddenly took off like the clappers, airlock going every 5 seconds, bit of a rotten eggs smell though...

In between all this I also stirred it up a few times and even strained the whole lot, thinking I might get rid of something.... scientific eh.

I have another batch just juiced and I plan to try using only one Campden tab per gallon. Will see how that goes. Also curious about nutrient, I have Brupaks which states 1/2 tsp for a 5 gallon beer brew, I understand cider probably needs more, but how much more? No answers in my Cider book...

Best of luck, don't lose faith too quickly, I almost chucked mine.

[kinnockthecat]

My cider took about 5 days to really get going, but I'm ising wild yeast

[crafty john]

I pressed my apples on Sunday, pitched the yeast straight away as I always do , bugger the campden tabs. and it started fermenting within 2 hours, never had a problem with this method.

[dean_wales]

OK this cider fermenting is not as easy and predictable as beer! Let me know how you get on Jambo.

I took a close up photo last night of the surface of one of the FVS and there are these weird snot like globules forming on the surface! What are they?! Both have similar stuff going on.



Absolutely no bubbles or foam or visible fermentation. Those you can see have been there since before I pitched. I couldn't find my hydrometer last night but will try to take a reading this evening to see if there has been a gravity drop.

The FV's are under my stairs so probably at around 17c which I hoped would be about right from a slow, clean and steady fermentation.

In my book "Craft Cider Making" he gives you a table of different amounts of Camden tablets required for various juice pH values. Mine should have had three per gallon but I had not checked the pH at the time. I would love to skip the camden tablets but the apples and equipment were not clean enough to allow it!

Dean.

[Jambo]

Any progress Dean?

Those globules appeared on mine shortly before it took off...

My second batch with one Campden/gal has started a lot more easily. Don't know if this low concentration makes the Campden a complete waste of time!?

[dean_wales]

Hiya,

Reassuring to hear about the globules! Yer I am not sure I would or want to use cambden tablets in future but will stick with the perceived wisdom for now.

I don't know what is going on to be honest... Having 60 litres of juice sat there at 18c that was damn hard to make is making me nervous. Can you get food poisoning from the juice going off before fermenting???

It had been a week yesterday and despite a little froth on one FV there were no signs of live bar a terrible rotten egg sulfur smell. So I pitched a full brand new sachet of Nottingham to each FV last night and fitted airlocks so that I can keep an easier look out for progress. That is ten quid of yeast now on this project but if it saves the batch it will be worth it.

Today things are looking a little better, loads of looks-like-fermetation-froth on both the surface in both FV's now BUT and this is a big BUT the gravity has still not changes. Both still sitting around the original 1.044 mark. Maybe lost a point or two but nothing noticeable.

Surely this isn't right or normal! Pic of each FV below. I cleared the middle of the FV to give a better pic and to plop the hydro in...




Whaddya all reckon. If the gravity was down to 1.20 or something I wouldn't be worried - but it isnt.

Beer normally takes 4-14 days to ferment. How long is cider primary fermentation normally?

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Do I need more nutrient? I cant find guidance anywhere on usage of the Youngs stuff.

Also maybe I should move it somewhere warmer? Its probably about 17c under the stairs?

Dean.

[Jambo]

That looks more promising...

Once mine took off, it went from 1.052 to 1.005 in about 5 days! Just last night I racked it off, had to throw away a gallon (out of 5) of sh!te, probably due to using so much yeast? But also I was impatient, maybe it would have settled more given time.

On my second batch I also used 1 tsp of nutrient rather than the 1/2 tsp the instructions give for beer - this was based on nothing other than gut feeling.

[dean_wales]

Yer there is definitely action now - airlock glugging every 30sec or so combined with the foam head reassures me a little.

Going to move it somewhere warmer overnight for a few days and then check the gravity on Friday when I get back from working away.

Happy to ferment slowly but I do need the FVs for beer in a month or so!

Dean.

[kinnockthecat]

I'm surprised fermentation starting has been that slow! Mone started to show some action as the juice was running into the fermenter. It took a few days before it really took off! Apple juice wants to be cider!

[dean_wales]

Yep. If you let nature take its course then apple juice turns itself into some sort of cider all by itself.

Trouble is that a full wild fermentation is unpredictable - and for that reason I have, like many others, decided to knock out the wild bugs with camben and then pitch a known brewers yeast.

It is going along fine now. I am not going to warm it up as a steady cool fermentation should be better flavour wise, especially for cider.

Fingers crossed!

PS - Had a nice on the local ciders at The Firehouse last weekend and confirmed that tannin will definitly be needed - its such a key element of the drinkability. Any suggestions from JBK members about what tannin to use - for ten gallons!