Schwarzbier specialty grains?

[Trough Lolly]

I recently brought a couple of bottles of my kegged Schwarzbier to the local club night and shared it around for feedback.

Some of the tasters suggested that there was roastiness in the grain flavour profile that apparently is out of style for a schwarzbier - I thought it was ok in moderation?!

Anyway, a visit to the HBS this arvo reveals that he has nowt patent malt so all I have to choose from is Carafa I, Carafa II and Thos. Fawcett Pale Choc malt in the home grainstore....oh and some roasted barley too!

Am I out of order by just using Carafa II?

The grist for an allegedly roasty 21L batch was:
2kg Vienna Malt
1.2kg Wey Pils
1kg Wey Munich II
160g Wey Carafa Special I
150g Wey Caraaroma and
150g Pale Choc malt

Bittered with Hallertauer. Tettnanger flowers with 5 to go in the boil.

Any thoughts on specialty grains (other than patent malt) for a schwarzbier would be appreciated...

Cheers,
TL

[richard_senior]

Looking around, people seem to roughly agree on Carafa.
If it were me.. I'd try some roasted barley, cos you have some anyway.
I'd also throw in some dark sugar like muscavado, or even a tin of molasses?
Chocolate Malt seems to crop up a lot in dark lager recipes.

[BigEd]

TL, I would stick to the German Carafa malts for color here. Chocolate malt and roasted barley just do not have a flavor that seems appropriate in a German beer IMO. You might consider trying the darker Carafa II so your color could be obtained with a smaller addition. I would also take a hard look at the CaraAroma. Even in small amounts its' flavor can be quite aggressive. I think CaraAroma is a great malt in rich, dark beers like bocks and porters but perhaps a tad strong in a Schwarzbier.

[richard_senior]

Ed,

Don't suppose you have a good recipe for Leffe Brune?

[Trough Lolly]

Thanks Ed,
I was thinking of just using Carafa II and dropping the Caraaroma - but jeez it's a nice grain addition....I'll see how it turns out with just Carafa II in the mix. I don't want to turn it into a lagered porter!!

Cheers,
TL

[mysterio]

I think I would go with 95% pilsner malt and 5% Carafa special (or enough to get it 'black'). I've only tried one or two but whenever i've had a shwarzbier it's just been a black pilsner basically, very little roast flavour. I might be way off here but aren't the strongly roasted & rich flavoured ones 'American' schwarzbiers?

Leffe Brune... not a shwarz or even a lager but I would take the leffe blonde recipe from brewing classic styles and substitute half the sugar with dark candi syrup... so 75% pilsner malt, 15% sugars (made up with some dark belgian sugar but probably keeping half of it simple sugar), 5% each of aromatic and wheat malt, to a gravity of 1.065, ferment with WLP500, keep the hops subdued.

[Barley Water]

I agree with Mysterio concerning the Schwartz Bier, you want very little roast flavor so go with the carafa and make sure it is the dehusked variety. My understanding is that you can make a pretty dry example or you can go for a more bready/malty profile but in either case you want to avoid heavy roasty flavors that you will surly get with either black patent or chocolate malts. In another month or so it will be time for me to start working on my winter lagers and although I will for sure do a Munich Dunkel, there may be a Schwartz Bier in my future also (it's good stuff).

[Aleman]

I made a well received Schwarzbier buy only using Carafa Special III as the dark grain . . very little roast character came through at all.

Personally Pils Malt and Carafa Special III is the way to go . . .

[BigEd]

Ed,

Don't suppose you have a good recipe for Leffe Brune?

Thanks for asking but I'm the wrong guy for Belgians. I can't handle even minuscule amounts of phenols. I like the looks of mysterio's suggestions so I would start there. Cheers!