For my 1st AG brew

[booldawg]

I was looking at the following; its a Hop Back 'Summer Lightening' clone:

Brew length 25L
5204 gms Maris Otter Pale Malt
58g's Challenger 90 mins
10g's Goldings last 15 mins

Seems a nice easy recipe to start AG brewing with (only one malt and no adjuncts) and I love light summery ales. Would I get away with using the Challenger for the late copper hops? I read they were made as a substitute for Goldings and a good aroma hop as well as good bittering properties.

[MightyMouth]

Summer Lightening is brewed with Kent Goldings only, I don't know what the effect of the Challenger would be, It might wind up a little too bitter depending on the AA%.

[booldawg]

Thanks all. I had a quick look at the Daabs calc. I dont have a clue about AA or IBU at the moment - its something I need to beef up on tbh. I'll do the research and then use the calc! I'm about a month away from brewing with grains so I have some lead time! As I'm bottling then maybe best to stick to the EKGS

Update. I've had a look at LHBS web site and they list the hops with AA% in a range from 5.0 - 6.0 for EKGS and 6.5 - 7.5 for Challenger. I used the top end percentages for the calc. The site said the AA% was down on previous crops so maybe using slight more anyway? Maybe 2 extra grams for the late copper hops?

[prodigal2]

Oh yes you can use challenger as aroma hops(and they are fantastic see my Bluebird thread in brewdays).
To compare challenger and goldings is like comparing cod and plaice(both great, and yet different).

I personally would recommend going for a single hop brew.

for challenger:
viewtopic.php?t=6439&highlight=challenger

and for all goldings search for 100% Satisfaction.

Both hops are fantastic, and are a great combo, but I personally would go for AG1 a single hop beer.

[booldawg]

Thanks Daab. Maybe not for my first brew with the yeast taken from a bottle! But definitely the sort of thing I'll be printing out and putting in my A4 'brewing' folder along with all the other things I'd love to do once I've gained more experience. With the recipe I've put down above using only EKGS would that make a fairly light and easy to drink pale ale? I think the ABV may be slightly too high as I'd aim for something around the 4.5% mark. But getting the balance right is one of the last things you learn I'm sure! And I guess notching down the weight in grain also affects the hop weight; if someone told me maths were involved, I'd have taken up embroidery

[booldawg]

I was going to use Nottingham for my first AG. I've always used Safale 04 for the kits and do find it tends to ferment out really quick but gives up the ghost at the 1020 mark and requires assistance. Again, choice of yeast is another consideration to make that lends itself to experience. I hear Windsor is good for stouts etc. I wish I'd got into this 10 years ago! I've got loads of jumbled up theories in my head! But thats what makes it such a great hobby, the finer nuances of tweaking this and fiddling with that.

[Toast]

Here's my recipe I put together after talking with the head brewer at the Hop Back

Summer Lighting
5150 g Optic malt (Marris otter will be fine and is used in their GFB)
Mash 90mins at 66 C

35 g Challenger (7%) full boil 27 IBUs
40 g Goldings (5%) late copper hops/20mins 13 IBUs

etc.

Sorry to pick this as my first post as it is some way down a thread. Nevertheless as a complete flamin' newbie to AG HB, I have been looking at recipe after recipe and wondering how the heck to I calculate how much water to add to the mash. Also, most of these recipes never seem to mention sparging...help! I have too much knowledge to act the total idiot but not enough to move forward with confidence!
Oh, BTW Hello everyone , been lurking for a few days, looks like a really useful forum.
Toast.

[Aleman]

I have been looking at recipe after recipe and wondering how the heck to I calculate how much water to add to the mash

Thats easy for every kilo of grain you add between 2 and 3L of water. 2L per kilo gives you a thick porridge which is quite difficult to stir . . .3L per kilo gives you a thin porridge which is easier to stir . . . I often go as high as 3.3L per kilo, and the Czech brewers at Plzen used to end up with up to 6L per kilo for most standard beers between 2 and 3L per kilo is usual.

Also, most of these recipes never seem to mention sparging...help!

For sparging you wan to start with the same volume of sparge water as the final volume of beer you are making . . . so for a 23L batch you start with 23L of sparge liquor . . . you may not use it all for various reasons, but its a good starting point.

[Toast]

Thanks for the excellent reply!

For sparging you wan to start with the same volume of sparge water as the final volume of beer you are making . . . so for a 23L batch you start with 23L of sparge liquor . . . you may not use it all for various reasons, but its a good starting point.

So with the sparging what you aim to do is get the volume you want for the SG you want, right? (there's nothing like washing your laundry in public)

[Aleman]

Thanks for the excellent reply!

For sparging you wan to start with the same volume of sparge water as the final volume of beer you are making . . . so for a 23L batch you start with 23L of sparge liquor . . . you may not use it all for various reasons, but its a good starting point.

So with the sparging what you aim to do is get the volume you want for the SG you want, right? (there's nothing like washing your laundry in public)

Not quite, Because some water will be lost to evaporation during the boil, you need to collect more wort to start with . . . this will (because its more dilute) have a lower gravity than the wort in the fermenter at the end. . . . In order to improve the quality of the wort you might want to consider stopping sparging when the gravity of the run off has fallen to around 1.010-1.012 . . . you will probably still have collected sufficient wort to aacount for evaporation, but if not you can always add the sparge liquor directly to the boiler as space becomes available.

[Toast]

In order to improve the quality of the wort you might want to consider stopping sparging when the gravity of the run off has fallen to around 1.010-1.012 . . .

I think that is what I meant: the SG of the run off.

Just had a look at DaaB's Batch Sparge calculator...when you talk to professional brewers it all seems very obvious, because to them it's second nature: 3.5% beer sparge 200% etc. but I'm fast coming to the conclusion that that sort of knowledge is hard one!
Still got to start somewhere!

[Toast]

Few if any proffesional brewers batch sparge these days as they can squeeze more beer from the same amount of grain fly sparging

There comes my misunderstanding: I was talking about fly sparging, as I was unaware that batch sparging was anything different. I need a book clearly!

[Toast]

Thanks DaaB,
I won't consider myself a brewer until I've made some beer someone else is prepared to drink!

I'm enjoying the challenge of just getting the equipment commissioned at the moment, slowly and steadily spending a small fortune (the wife, oddly, is encouraging me at the moment. I await the moment she says 'How much?' with dread). I've discovered Reading has six pound shops which I haunt of a lunch time, looking for things to reuse in building a brewery. Interestingly, several of them have what look like relatively good quality stainless pans of the large, very large and ridiculous size. One of them (for the princely sum of £99) you could bath a small child in and I'm not kidding...

[Iank]

Here's my recipe I put together after talking with the head brewer at the Hop Back

Summer Lighting
5150 g Optic malt (Marris otter will be fine and is used in their GFB)
Mash 90mins at 66 C

35 g Challenger (7%) full boil 27 IBUs
40 g Goldings (5%) late copper hops/20mins 13 IBUs

etc.

Sorry to pick this as my first post as it is some way down a thread. Nevertheless as a complete flamin' newbie to AG HB, I have been looking at recipe after recipe and wondering how the heck to I calculate how much water to add to the mash. Also, most of these recipes never seem to mention sparging...help! I have too much knowledge to act the total idiot but not enough to move forward with confidence!
Oh, BTW Hello everyone , been lurking for a few days, looks like a really useful forum.
Toast.

Another tip re mash water, is that when adding more water to adjust the mash temp, you need far less cold water to get the temperature down than you need boiling water to get the temperature up. Which makes sense when you think about it as the relative temperature difference between the mash and cold water is much greater.
I say this as if you end up with your mash temperature a bit cool, you might need to add quite a bit of boiling water, and end up with a thinner mash than you'd like.
So my tip is if anything to err on the high side of the strike temperature as it's easier to add a small amount of cold water to bring it down.

[Toast]

Another tip re mash water, is that when adding more water to adjust the mash temp, you need far less cold water to get the temperature down than you need boiling water to get the temperature up.

Makes sense! I've bought a new 27L Cygnet boiler for £46 for my HLT, but will be getting a separate thermometer and will endeavour to get my strike temp correct - something that was drummed into me on the course I did was that temperature has more of an effect than one might imagine.