Octoberfest advice please

[sam c]

wouldnt mind doing one of these. have been looking around on the forum for recipes and have come up with the one below.

Lager Malt 2.5 EBC 4 lbs. 13.5 oz 2200 grams 38.6%
Vienna Malt 7.5 EBC 3 lbs. 4.9 oz 1500 grams 26.3%
Munich Malt 20 EBC 3 lbs. 4.9 oz 1500 grams 26.3%
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 1 lbs. 1.6 oz 500 grams 8.8%

Liberty Whole 4.9 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 1.2 oz 35 grams 63.6%
Crystal Whole 4.9 % 20 mins 0 lbs. 0.7 oz 20 grams 36.4%

Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.059
Alcohol Content: 5.8% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 80 %
Bitterness: 22.5997384966328 EBU
Colour: 39 EBC

im not really sure if this is correct so advice on the recipe would be great. i would like to go for an amber colured beer rather than the darker a one. the hops are what i have and would rather not buy any more at the moment but if you think they are not at all fitting let me know. it all seemed to fit the beer tools profile so hope im not totally wrong!

as far as yeast goes i would rather go with a dried yeast for the easy approach. will i need more than one pack? and what sort of temp should i be aiming to ferment at? im not quite ready to brew this yet as i need to get find the right place or time to get the low temps needed.


cheers

[mysterio]

I would pull back on the crystal malt a little. Last one I brewed was half and half pils and munich malt, with about 2 % crystal added in for colour. You don't want tonnes of crystal in what is a lager intended to be drunk in volume.

Also I wouldn't bother with American hops, Liberty and Crystal malt are immitation German noble hops, nothing wrong with them but you won't get them any cheaper than the real deal. Go with Hallertau, Magnum, Tettnanger, anything like that.

You will need to ferment at 10C. For dried yeast a decent choice would be W34/70 Saflager which is from Weihenstephan. 2 sachets per 5 gallons, rehydrated and pitched at 10C, and fermented at that too.

[sam c]

thanks.

i will drop the crystal to maybe 200g then. the only dried lager yeast my local hb shop has is saflager s-23. would this be suitable? or which wyeast would be good? would i only need one pack of this? it would work out the same price in the end.

what i meant about the hops is that i already have liberty and crystal so dont want to buy any more at the moment. so i think i will stick with them for now.

[Barley Water]

Well as it turns out, I will be doing my version of an Octoberfest this weekend (was going to last weekend but felt horrible so this weekend it is). I agree with Mysterio's comments, way too much crystal malt and everything else being equal, I would try and use tried and true German noble hops. I don't have my recipe in front of me or I would just give it to you but if you cut way back on the crystal you should do well.

To some extent, all this is just a matter of taste but in my opinion, the better Octoberfests are at the same time malty but fairly dry, well attenuated beers which have what is termed a "round" feel to them (don't ask me to explain but once you taste it you will know what I am talking about). I like a little toasty flavor from the malt but no roasty flavors. I plan on doing a double decoction (boiling each decoction 30 minutes) and I will likely boil down a quart or so of first runnings as well. What I want to achieve is a fairly complex malt flavor which has the "dark bread" type flavors. I have found doing a decoction tends to smooth out the mouthfeel (makes the beer almost creamy) and generates some really neat meloidin flavors which I really like. By the way, I do this to my Alt Bier as well as my Munich Dunkel (oh hell, I decoct all my German beers) and these beers are winning me metals in contests so I know this stuff works.

Anyhow, good luck with your efforts, let us know how it turns out. I really wish I had made mine a little earlier in the year so I could lager it longer but I have capacity constraints, what can you do?

[mysterio]

If it's your first go I would go with dried yeast for simplicity and the greatest chance of success.

The liquid yeasts are fantastic but will require you to make a starter in the region of 4 - 5 litres with malt extract. If you can be bothered with that, then i'm confident it will make a better beer, but the dried will do a good job too. If you pitch one wyeast propogator pack into your wort, without a starter, I doubt it will even ferment.

You will still need 2 packs of the dried yeast to be pitching the proper amount.

Pitching a lot of yeast and fermenting cool is of paramount importance!

OTOH, 100g of crystal will have you in the amber range, 200g will be more copper coloured I reckon. Having at least half your grist as Munich or Vienna malts is important for a nice malty oktoberfest!

I'm sure BW won't mind me saying this, I know he's out to win competitions to give his oktoberfest that edge over the rest, but as a newbie (or even a pro IMHO ), I wouldn't bother with the decoctions. Focus on the fermentation, and once you've brewed a handful of good lagers, then you can start messing around with stuff like that.

[sam c]

cheers.

i have dropped the crystal down to 200 g which gives me an EBC 23 which i think is about right.

now to work out where and how i will get those low temps. old fridge ?

[mysterio]

Old fridge is probably the easiest way to go, check ebay and limit the search to within 50 miles or whatever (assuming you can drive), and I bet you'll be able to pick a suitable one up for under 20 quid. Be careful though, once you've got one you'll want another, then another..

[Barley Water]

Even better than an old fridge, get a chest freezeer. You can store more cornie kegs in them for lagering (I wish I had one but the wife would kill me) and you might actually save some money.

I agree that you can make very good beer without the trouble of a decoction, the British have been doing it since God was a pup. Mr. Mysterio is correct in that I am looking for an edge so it's worth it to me to go to the trouble. Also, I have done it so many times now that frankly it is not that big a deal anymore and it benefits society as a whole since it keeps me off the streets and out of trouble.

I also agree that if you are a first time lager maker, how you handle the yeast and run the fermentation will far and away trump anything you do in the way of decoctions. Just make sure you pitch enough, healthy yeast and control that fermentation temperature. It's very easy to under attenuate the beer if you under pitch plus you will end up with alot of off flavors since the yeast will start to product esters and phenols if it's stressed. Anyway, good luck, let us know how you do.

[sam c]

not sure if i can do the fridge thing right now but it does seem to be the only way.

as far as yeast goes would wyeast bavarian lager do the job? would i need two packs to do the job?this will end up being quite an expensive brew but im guessing its worth it.

thanks again for all the advice

sorry just seen mysterio's post on the yeast, must of missed it

thanks

[sam c]

ok so having now read that post i will go with two packs of well re-hydrated dry lager yeast for the easy approach as suggested and keep to 10 c for fermentation. iw ill look for the suggested dried yeast but if i cant get hold of it i will probably go with the s-23.

once fermentation is nearly finished, say 1.020 or so, am i right in thinking i would then rack to another fv or cask and lower the temp and then leave for a month or more?

might be a while before i can get this brew on but i will be sure to post a thread in the brewdays once i do.

[mysterio]

No, you would have to make a starter with the wyeast propagator.

Not quite, you would allow the temperature to rise two or three degrees to finish attenuation (diacetyl rest), before racking off into another cask/fv/keg to lager at around 0C (if you have the ability to do this step). Couple of weeks is good, four weeks is even better

[sam c]

ok so at around 1.020 bring the temp up a few degrees and let it finish fermenting, then into cask and down as low as possible for four weeks?sound good

oh and when it comes to bottling will i have to add another pack of yeast to the cask before priming?