Saison

[TheMumbler]

I've been thinking about brewing a saison. I don't have any munich or vienna, would I be OK to add a little amber malt for colour?

23l
4kg MO
0.5kg Flaked Wheat
0.3kg candi sugar
0.2kg amber malt

25 IBU from Bobek, I guess some late hops for aroma
yeast recultured from a bottle of saison.

I understand that saisons should finish pretty low and fairly high fermentation (up to 30*C) temps in the later stages of fermentation are used to achieve this.

Has anybody out there brewed a saison? Advice greatly appreciated.

[coatesg]

That's a lot of amber - it's very strongly flavoured and I'd probably halve that, or drop it and use munich if you can get some (Barley bottom?). Though of course, this is a Belgian style, so anything in essence goes, so you could give it a shot and see what results!

Yeast is important for these styles - just make sure the yeast you use is a primary strain and not a bottling strain, or go for a liquid yeast (WLP565?).

[TheMumbler]

cheers, I've not used amber before so not sure about how to use it. Sounds like I should back it off or possibly remove all together.

The yeast was recultured from Saison Dupont I think it is the brewing strain from what I can find

[Barley Water]

I usually brew this style once a year and I wait until it is really hot to do it since I ferment at room temperature (more on that latter). This style is really fun because you have a lot of wiggle room within the style guidelines so you can do what you want.

I take the approch that this is a farmhouse ale and as such, you can throw in whatever fermentables are at hand just like the farmers did back in the day. I personally use pils malt, malted wheat, some Munich malt and some oats. In terms of sugar, I use jaggery but you can do whatever you like. The only thing I would say about candi sugar is that it is expensive and probably not worth the money but it will work. By the way, if the candi sugar you have are those crytalized rocks, those are a waste of money since they are really just beet sugar, go to the grocery store instead. I also use spices plus I use the zest of fresh grapefruit and oranges. Some of the purists don't do this and just let the yeast do the talking, again, it's up to you. Frankly, I would not use the Amber malt, it will cause the beer to have a roasted aspect which I don't think you want in this style.

The other thing you need to know is that this yeast is very funky compared to normal ale yeasts. If you let it get too cold, it will stall out on you. You want the beer to get as dry as possible so you need the stuff to attenuate all the way out. This yeast likes heat and a friend of mine actually put his beer in the garage at over 100F for a while (it attenuated and he did very well at a very large contest). I plan to employ this technique when I make this year's batch. It's all about getting the beer as dry as possible.

Finally, I think this beer needs to be very highly carbonated (by that I mean when the bottle is opened, the beer starts gushing out the top, it's ok, it's Belgian). I put mine up in champagne bottles which I know will hold the pressure and I naturally carbonate. This year I am going to use those plastic champagne corks with wire cages, it's almost hot enough now here in Texas, I can't wait to get started.

[TheMumbler]

thanks for the detailed reply

the higher temperatures are one thing that attracted me as it is getting a touch warm here for British ale brewing without any ability to cool. I can only drop the temperature by fermenting in the cellar which is pretty unsanitary. I guess I'll have to heat it a touch to hit the kinds of temperatures you are talking about though. I have an old immersion heater which should be OK for that. Are you talking about a high temperature throughout fermentation, or just raising after a day or two when a good bit of the sugar has been eaten up by the yeast?

I take your point on the candi sugar I'm using it because it was given to me for free and will add a touch of colour. Maybe I'll just ditch the amber as you suggest, I'm erring on the side of omitting any extra spices to see what the yeast does.

[Barley Water]

I usually ferment Saisons at room temperature which for me in the summer is almost 80F during the day (way too cheap to turn the A/C on any higher). My current plan is to ferment at that temperature and at the end of the ferment, I'll try the garage for a couple of days. Mind you, I have not tried this yet so it might turn out to be a gigantic bust, we'll see. You will not get any wierd fermentation by products fermenting at 80F, I read someplace that the yeast strain is believed related to wine yeast which can get quite hot without adverse effects. This style turns everything you previously learned about beer making on it's head. I have tried some wacky stuff in my time but I'll do things making this style that I would not dream of with normal lagers or ales.

By all means, go ahead and see what the yeast can do by itself. I have had Saisons brewed that way and they were very good and very refreshing. If you want to see how crazy you can get with the style though, check out some of the stuff they do at Fantome (spelling?). You might notice that Saison Dupont also has a sour/acidic quality to it. I actually add just a little food grade lactic acid at bottling time to try and simulate that taste. I am very tempted to try adding some bugs to the beer instead but I need to consult with a buddy of mine to see what would be best.

That reminds me, I have a keg of Oud Bruin which is now over a year old which I have not even tried yet (how's that for patience). I really need to start up another batch of that, do some blending of old with new and bottle some, this summer should get pretty interesting.

[TheMumbler]

I read someplace that the yeast strain is believed related to wine yeast which can get quite hot without adverse effects.

I borrowed farmhouse brews and the author of the saison section of that puts forward that theory.

That reminds me, I have a keg of Oud Bruin which is now over a year old which I have not even tried yet (how's that for patience). I really need to start up another batch of that, do some blending of old with new and bottle some, this summer should get pretty interesting.

sounds good, I'm not sure I could go a year without a taster to see how it is getting along...I suppose it depends on how many interesting brews you have to hand

I'll use the heater to push the temps up, very glad it isn't hot enough to need air con to get down to 80F here.

[TheMumbler]

brewday thread here