Advice for NZ high alpha hops?

[Gothamite]

Okay,
Following on from a comment from delboy on my last brew, I've had a couple of packs of NZ high alpha hops in the freezer for a few months which he reckons may be losing their aroma. So I figured time for another brew. The last one I did was very bitter, with IBU's over the 100 mark. I seem to remember someone on here saying that they (Green Bullet and Pacific Gem) could be used well as aroma hops. That being said, what do you think of this recipe? Too malty?, too hoppy?
MO 1.5kg
Munich 1.5kg
Special B 250g
Wheat Malt 250g
Melanoidin 100g
Vienna Malt 100g
EBC 30 IBU 40
OG 1043 FG 1011 ABV 4.2%
90 min Mash
Green Bullet 10g 90 min
Green Bullet 28g 5 min
Pacific Gem 28g 5 min
Green Bullet 28g 0 min steep 30min
Pacific Gem 28g 0 min steep 30min
Pitch with US-05

Cheers.
Gothamite

[Subsonic]

Whats the final volume on that? I used Green Bullet at 13.7 Alpha. Hop schedule was:-

Hop Alpha Time IBU
Green Bullet 35g 13.70% 60 minutes 35
Cascade 80g 7.60% 10 10

45
Flameout with 120g of cascade.

Thats with 9kg of marris otter @ 40 litres end volume, US05 as well. You have 3 kilos and 66g of New Zealand alone and 1/3rd of my grain bill. Mine is pretty bitter, needed time to mellow but now its lovely. I was aiming for a 'New World APA' or NZAPA perhaps. I was careful with the Green Bullet as its a resinous hop and it worked ok. Mind you as my signature says, I am always careful with bullets lol. Subsonic

[Gothamite]

Hi subsonic,
It's a 19L volume. Although I've got 66g of NZ hops, they are mostly late on, hence the estimated IBU of 40. You reckon too hoppy still?
Gothamite

[symptomlesscoma]

Have you tasted Pacific Gem as late hops?
I've done 2 brews with it and I'm not sure I like it. Don't get any of the berry fruit flavours its supposed to give.
All i get is a flavour like strong alcohol even though the beers are relatively low abv.
Quite good as bittering hops tho.
I'd be interested to see what you think when your beers done.

[lancsSteve]

First-wort hop at the start for a smoother bitterness and more flavour maybe?

One to go out and research I'd say on late-hopping effects/flavour/harshness... What do they smell like???

[symptomlesscoma]

I would say they do smell like berries actually.
Think its just the harshness of of the hop flavour, it probably mellows out.
First beer i did with them was a single hop Pacific Gem, i thought i'd underhopped as it really tasted of alcohol.
Last one i did just half oz steeped and it really overtook the flavour of the other hops used and i got the characteristic alcohol taste again.
So I've drawn the conclusion not to use it as flavour/late hop, just for bittering from now on.
Dunno if anyone else can echo what I've just said?

[yogester]

Maybe some mash hopping and then everything 20 min and later including a massive steep would be my recommendation to extract the best of the hop oils. But then again I am a unreformed hophead...

[Gothamite]

Thanks guys,
Looks like these are not highly thought of as late hops. Don't really want to waste a brew to find out. What hops would you recommend with this grain bill then?
Gothamite

[symptomlesscoma]

Never had green bullet but reading up on it it says it has Styrian Golding characteristics.
Maybe go for Pacific Gem as bittering and green bullet late.

Actually tried my Pacific Gem IPA last night after ageing it a while and most of the harshness has gone, think just cos its high alpha its initially harsh as late hop.
It may just be that I don't like Pacific Gem, and you might.

[Gothamite]

Okay, I will swap round the early Green Bullet for Pacific Gem and late hop with the Green Bullet.
Thanks,
Gothamite