Tips on using cascade in a bitter

[dave.wilton]

Does anyone have any tips for using cascade in a bitter? I'm looking to make an English ale utilising cascade. I have WPL005 yeast which I was going to use, but I also have US05 if everyone says 'no that's a really bad idea'! This is what I came up with:

Amber Ale
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.1
Total Grain (kg): 5.822
Total Hops (g): 80.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (°P): 13.6
Colour (SRM): 16.3 (EBC): 32.1
Bitterness (IBU): 36.4 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.949 kg Maris Otter Malt (85%)
0.582 kg Crystal 120 (10%)
0.291 kg Torrified Wheat (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
30.0 g Challenger Leaf (6.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)
20.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.4 g/L)

[Barley Water]

I would have to say looking at that formulation that I would think I was drinking an American Pale ale with serious malt complexity unless somebody told me differently. The beer will taste good, there is nothing wrong with what you propose but those hops are going to make the beer seem like a Northwestern US product rather than something done in the UK. Cascade will give you the grapefruit flavor with a heavy pinetree aroma (which is really nice by the way). If you use the American ale yeast, you will get a cleaner fermentation which we do over here because we are trying to accentuate the hops. I always think of UK pale ales/bitters as having more subtle hopping which tends to be more earthy than the stuff we do over here. Remember, Americans generally don't get the concept of "subtle", we will imediately try to push the envelope. Also, we tend to do alot more late hopping that you guys do although judging by what I see on these message boards, maybe that is changing. I personally like my beer to have more malt flavor so I rather like using UK varieties since they are much better in that regard than US two row ale malt. Anyhow, go ahead and make the beer just like you have planned then, when it's ready to drink, go out and compare it to say Fuller's ESP and see what you think. If you prefer the bitterness, flavor and aroma of Cascade hops then I could suggest a couple other things you could try to accentate that effect (like serious hop bursting and a couple of other hop varieties which you might enjoy). Let us know how it works out for you.

[lupulin]

Yea that seems like it'll taste more like an IPA than a bitter. Seems like a high OG and lots of hops. Cascade can work in a bitter, but I usually only add them during the last 5 min of the boil, and I don't use much. All those late cascades are going to dominate the flavor and aroma. However, it's not a bad thing, it's just more an IPA than a bitter type of thing IMO. As for the yeast, again it depends what you're going for, but WLP005 is one of my favorite strains so I would be biased toward that one. S-05 doesn't bring much to the party, so that hop flavor will really come through with that.

[boingy]

I think it will turn out pretty well. It's not a traditional bitter but that's fine. The only change I'd suggest is to move the 30 minute addition to much later in the boil (or after flame-out) and adjust the bittering hops to suit. A 30 minute hop addition is in no-mans land. It's usually better to have the hops in for the whole of the boil for bitterness or near the end for flavour and aroma.

[smdjoachim]

Take out the crystal and the 30 min hops and you got a Oakhams Bishops farewell.

[dave.wilton]

Some really great replies thank you all. Well I think I'm just going to brew it, I will label it as a style once I have tasted it!

Boingy I agree, I had them at the beginning and then moved them to 30 minutes, I'm not really sure why. I was just trying to get bittering and flavour from them.

Interesting to hear about farewell, I didn't realise that was cascade. There are some really english good pale ales with american hops (Darkstar hophead and Castle Harvest Pale spring to mind) I was just looking to get more of a malt profile for the winter.

Barley water I think things might be changing from what I see. The guys I meet are interested in what they can do with American hops, so who knows how things will go! We have had quite a few pubs open here in London which take pride in their bottle selection of American ales.

Lupulin, I'm going to stick with WPL05 as you suggest. US05 is good for its clean taste but I hate the fact that it doesn't pack down into the bottle well and moves at the slightest disturbance

So it could end up as an IPA, amber or bitter, we will see!

Thanks

[Deebee]

remember to post pictures.
Am brewing this evening, will be using centennial, chinook and cascade.
Will be aiming for a hoppy malty bomb:-) let us know how it turns out:-)

[dave.wilton]

I decided that trying to make this a bitter was nonsense, as pointed out by many here. So I'm just going for a straight an English / American IPA

Cascade IPA
English IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.1
Total Grain (kg): 6.284
Total Hops (g): 100.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (°P): 14.7
Colour (SRM): 12.4 (EBC): 24.4
Bitterness (IBU): 45.9 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
5.656 kg Maris Otter Malt (90%)
0.314 kg Crystal 120 (5%)
0.314 kg Wheat Malt (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
25.0 g Challenger Leaf (6.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)
25.0 g Pilgrim Leaf (9.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.6 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with WLP005 - British Ale

[Rookie]

Cacades in a bitter?
Don't do it.
Go goldings.

[raiderman]

First point cascade and challenger combine really well and make a great english bitter. Your first hop loading came out around 36 EBU and I'd go for that.Second point Don't go too bitter with cascade or you'l end up in amerikan ipa territory

[adm]

There's nothing wrong with good American Pale Ales (or IPAs, or IIPAs for that matter). I love 'em and think they are doing far more adventurous things than we are over here. With the exception of a few breweries.

[raiderman]

Its a matter of taste. Fat Tire I rather like, but generally I find amerikan pales an acquired taste, and I end up drinking their microbrewery lagers when I'm out here

[critch]

last years champion bitter of britain and siba northern champion the other year was southport brewery golden sands. an excellent beer that you can taste the cascade in it

my best bitter (which has won its share of awards in the last year) is jam packed full of cascade and amerillo. there are many award winning english ales brewed with cascade.

go for it!