Malty bitter?

[Kev888]

I'm pretty happy with my other styles but I've yet to find a really stand-out recipe for my house bitter - I'm after a solid combo of bitterness and maltiness to sit in the middle between IPAs/stouts and milds/wheat bears. The best so far has been (increasingly loosely) based on an 80 shilling:

• OG = 1.055
  FG = 1.018
  ABV = 4.8%
  IBUs = 33.62
  
  Marris Otter 68.3%
  Munich Malt 23.9%
  Crystal Malt 4.9%
  Wheat Malt 2.4%
  Chocolate Malt 0.5%
  (Single infusion at 67c)
  
  Fuggles 90mins 11 IBU
  Goldings 90mins 17 IBU
  Goldings 10mins 6 IBU
  
  WLP028 (Edinburgh) @ 18c

Its nice, but it lacks a bit of something to make it a favourite. I'm thinking probably in the hop department: whats there is fine but the BU:OG ratio is only about 34, pretty close to my mild so could stand a bit more bitterness, and I'd also like a bit more hop flavour and aroma. So casting around my spare hops, I was thinking of adding some:

• Northdown as First Wort Hops (to add about 10 IBU and hopefully some rounded flavour),
  Northdown steeped at 80c
  Progress as Dry Hops

Just thought I'd ask opinions - is this is likely to improve it, or unless I cut back on the residual sugars a bit too would it just be schizophrenic? Or in fact if there are other ideas to make it a top brew of this malty/bitter combo.

Cheers
Kev

[stevetk189]

Nice sounding recipe Kev.

I've not long ago brewed a very simple, bitter. Pale malt, a tad of crystal, EKG and Fuggles. To give it a little je ne sais quois (however the frig that's spelled) I boiled up 1 litre of the first runnings from my mash tun. Reduced it to 250ml but tried not to let it darken too much. It's added some interesting malty, caramel and a hint of vanilla aromas and flavours. Might be worth trying with the ingredients you've listed above before adding others.

[Kev888]

Interesting steve, thanks for the idea. I've not done anything like that before, apart from when decoctions have got a bit enthusiastic..

Cheers
Kev

[zgoda]

1.018 is quite high for fg. Wouldn't it be just sweet?

Munich will give nice bready character, bit of melanoidin malt even more. Like, 50 grams, to support the munich.

[Kev888]

Yep, the FG is a high one, the original basis for the recipe was a scottish style. I was aiming for a decent malty body to make a change from my IPAs; curiously the results aren't as out-and-out sweet as I'd imagine from such an FG, its more a malty/chewy sort of taste and quite pleasant, just not that exciting as time goes on and my (traditional strong) milds do the 'malty' thing better.

So I'm in a quandry over just adding lots more hops to make it a very hoppy very malty number, or adding 'some' hops and reducing the FG a bit to achieve a ballance in a lighter beer. Perhaps I'll hedge my bets and do a bit of both. I could perhaps also add something a bit more roasted-tasting too, though not so much as to make it start getting stoutish.

You're right, the munich does give it a nice character, but melanoidin malt isn't something I've tried so that sounds interesting. I won't have chance to get any for the next brew but it seems like something I should experiment with.

Cheers
kev

[far9410]

I want to do something similar, but I think a London pride ish ale would fit the bill?

[Kev888]

Hmm, yes thats a good thought.. fairly malty but not lacking in hops either; spot on! If BYOBRA's recipe is a fair representation, I've got the ingredients too - aside from just having made a wlp028 starter, anyway.

Thanks for the idea!

Cheers
kev

[Skittlebrau]

I threw this together with the help of of other JBKers and it has turned out lovely. Dominant mild coffee flavour from the amber, but in a nice way.

[Kev888]

Thanks for that; the recipe looks quite similar to what I'm concocting, but i'd not thought of adding amber malt. I've perhaps been a bit heavy handed when using amber before, so its tended to dominate and get a bit wearing after a while, but it is nice so (if I could restrain myself) it could have potential for this. I don't have any at the mo, so I think I'll brew a basic recipe and (if that turns out well) next time try things like amber and melanoidin malt to gradually refine it.

Currently I'm thinking of a london pride type recipe but with the Edinburgh yeast and some tweaks to the hops. I'll probably try First Wort Hops with it rather than pure bittering, and also some 80c steeped and dry hopped.

Cheers
kev

[Kev888]

So this is what I've ended up going with:

Brew Length 76L
Predicted OG = 1.048
Predicted FG = 1.013
Predicted ABV = 4.5
IBU = 32.97
BU:OG =0.68

Marris Otter 87.4 %
Crystal Malt 8.7 %
Wheat Malt 3.9 %
Mash at 66c single infusion

(hop, when, IBU)
Northdown FWH 5
Target FWH 14
Challenger 10 5
Northdown 10 5
Goldings 10 4
Northdown 80c Steep 100g
Goldings Dry Hop 100g

WLP028 Edinborough Scottish Ale
Fementation at 20c

Fingers crossed!

Cheers
Kev