Looking for a recipe...

[Cazamodo]

I saw a while ago, a thread (might of not been on JBk) about a biug beer that was being brewed, and edvery few months they added fruit to it. I beleive the update I saw he had just chucked some plums in. Anyway I think it was a big sour beer with a number of yeasts, and fruit in, that was fermenting for around a year.

Anyway I find I always seem to have a spare fermentor, and ive just been offered a load fo fruit, elderberries, blackberries, and plums, so thought why not brew something up and see how it comes out in a year or so...

Anyone have any experience with these types of beers? As I havent at all, but the thought of making one intruiges me!

[seymour]

You're surely describing lambic, one of the most complex styles to brew (and appreciate, too.) Entire books have been written to answer your question, but this archived Brew Your Own article is a very good start: http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/ ... ic-brewing
Don't be dissuaded, though, an Elderberry/Blackberry/Plum lambic would likely be outrageously delicious!

[Cazamodo]

Ah that exactly what I'm looking for! hopefully I can find a good base recipe, then I plan to age it and add fruit. Im guessing I would add each fruit at a different time...

Im hoping to have a beer that, come next year, I can use some to start then next batch for a year.

[seymour]

Ah that exactly what I'm looking for! hopefully I can find a good base recipe, then I plan to age it and add fruit...

These typically start out along the lines of Belgian wit, but any basic 50/50 barley-wheat recipe will work great. The author listed this simple extract version at the end of his article:

Piatz's Basic Lambic (5 US gallons/19 L)

OG = 1.056
FG = 1.016 or lower
IBU = 0
SRM = 3
ABV = up to 5.2%

Ingredients
3.0 lbs. (1.4 kg) light dried malt extract
3.0 lbs. (1.4 kg) wheat dried malt extract
0.25 lbs. (0.11 kg) malto-dextrin powder
3 oz. (85 g) any well-aged hops
mix of brewers yeast, "wild yeasts" and bacteria
(Wyeast 3278 "Lambic Blend" or mixture of commercial cultures and microbes cultured from commercial lambics)

...Im guessing I would add each fruit at a different time...

I wouldn't. After the beer finishes fermenting (in the case of true lambic: after aging a couple years, though I've never waited that long. If you do, you'll want new fruit anyway) I'd pulverize all the fruit in a bucket and rack the beer on top of it for a couple months, during which it will harmoniously dissolve together. I can't think of any advantages in doing the fruit in stages.

[Barley Water]

Well I have an idea for you (this will take some time but reduce the risk of a total screw up). First, make up an Oud Bruin (basicly a brown ale with an O.G. of about 1.065, and that is important by the way). Let it go for a year, I store mine in a dedicated cornie at room temperature. After a year, make up another batch. Pull 1/2 the first batch and 1/2 the second batch (once primary fermentation is done) put it in a large carboy or other fermenter with head space and add your fruit (cherries, rasberries or similar). With the remaining beer (1/2 the first batch and 1/2 the second batch) fill up your cornie keg and let sit. The fruited beer should be ready in 6 months or so and oh yeah, it will be strong. The bugs will have sucked most of the sugar out of the fruit so don't expect it to be sweet. Also, the fruit will likely have bugs on it also therefore the beer will be seriously wild. I am getting close to brewing up another batch of Oud Bruin so I may well divert some of the beer into a small carboy I have and give this a go (if I can source some sour cherries). I think my Oud Bruin solera is over three years old now so I have some seriously funky beer in there, it's always fun to play around at bit with this hobby.

[Cazamodo]

That sounds good!

Ive realised that the fruit I shall get this year is not going to be used in anything like this, as I will need to age it for a year before adding any fruit anyway! But I'm glad its put the idea into my head. Now I can start planning for next year.

I like the sound of the Oud Bruin... Hmm desicions!

[Barley Water]

Actually, I have seen it written that you should really freeze the fruit before adding it to the beer anyway. When it thaws out, the membranes will break apart letting the bugs get to the sugar in the fruit. Of course, the advantage to that is that the fruit doesn't necessarily need to be in season when it's added. By the way, if you look into it a bit, I think you'll find that doing an Oud Bruin is a bit easier than a Lambic from a technical persepective and frankly, I like it better since you get both the sour and sweet thing going at the same time.

[seymour]

...I think you'll find that doing an Oud Bruin is a bit easier than a Lambic from a technical persepective and frankly, I like it better since you get both the sour and sweet thing going at the same time...

I agree. Not to mention, anything big and brown and old and weird and oxidized and alcoholic and fruity or not can legitimately fall under the broad classification "Oud Bruin" and thus avoid all the appellation and process purist arguments pertaining to lambic.

But all that only matters at competitions anyway. If you just want to brew and age a wild-ish fruit beer, do what you want and call it what you want, right?

[Cazamodo]

Haha I like that plan! For the base brew, is it just a strong brown ale? Whats the hop profile like. Do I need aged or at least very low alpha hops? If I can get a good base brew to age. Then like you say I can split it and add to it to experiment year after year. Well thats the plan!

[seymour]

When I've made it, you could think of the recipe as sorta a cross between ESB and Munich Dunkel or Dunkler Bock. Be sure to use at least some pils malt in your base. Yeah, old hops if you got 'em or just lower concentrations of whatever's on hand. Primary ferment with your choice of high-attenuating, alcohol tolerant ale yeast. Here's the official BJCP style definition of 17C. Flanders Brown Ale/Oud Bruin for more ideas but I'll leave Barley Water to provide his recipe recommendation http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style17.php#1c

[Cazamodo]

Well I've been planning this now, just found that rob at The Malt Miller has some aged hops available, so that's one part speeded up! I'm still putting together the grain bill, and hopefully I have pretty much the grain I need... hoping to get this brewed up at the weekend! Also need to decide on a yeast to pitch to begin with. Something highly attenuating and alcohol tolerant, I think I could get away with a dry yeast?

Also, the primary ferment, do I let this complete before adding anything else?

[seymour]

Did you even read the BYO article?

"...I run the hot wort directly from the kettle to the plastic bucket without chilling and will leave the wort in the bucket for a day or so with the lid partially open to the kitchen air, which is typically full of enteric bacteria. This exposure will allow the enteric bacteria present in the air to add their components to the beer. After the exposure to the air, I place the lid on the bucket and wait a few days before I pitch a normal brewers yeast. The variety doesn't matter very much; I either use yeast from a prior normal beer or a packet of dried yeast. By this time the beer is starting to get a little “funky” and the surface may look a little oily. At this point I also add the treated piece of oak back into the bucket, do not run the hot wort onto it or you will be sanitizing it. The brewers yeast will rapidly change the pH and generate ethanol, both of which will help kill off the enteric bacteria but their byproducts will still be there. After a few weeks I add the other organisms, the Brettanomyces, Pediococcus, Lactobacillus and the dregs from commercial lambics and prior batches of homebrewed lambic..."

Just teasing you. There are many, many ways to produce a sour fruit beer. But, yes, most people complete a regular fermentation with regular ale yeast first. I find a "Berliner Weiss" technique is fairly simple too, where you let a small amount of grain and wort go sour, then blend it back into the otherwise regular batch.
http://www.ratebeer.com/Recipe.asp?RecipeID=110