use up

[far9410]

I want to make a brew to use up some grains, Ive got about 500g golden promise, 5000g lager malt 1000g munich, 500g carapils, small amount of choc, and for some strange reason over a kilo of roasted barley. I plan to make a stout soon to use up a bit of RB, but I was thinking along the lines of a dark IPA, using a cold/hot? steep of the dark grains. What do you think?, any ideas?

[Matt12398]

Would that make a schwarzbier with a cold steep on the dark grains? Not sure if you have lagering capabilities.

[far9410]

Would that make a schwarzbier with a cold steep on the dark grains? Not sure if you have lagering capabilities.

By that do you mean fv temp control etc , the answer is yes, but i dont think thats what i'm after. If I need to steep the dark grains hot or add at time of sparge to get colour without too much roasty flavour then thats ok, just wondered if a cold steep would give a different characteristic

[Matt12398]

I did mean temp control.

I've heard cold steeping give a nice smooth flavour but requires a long steep to extract much from it. Not having tried it though I'm not sure. Adding during the sparge would be easier.

[seymour]

Maybe it's just "on the brain" because of a simultaneous thread /viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56739 but I'd brew a basic stout. Weigh everything except for the roasted barley, figure 10%, add that much roasted barley, and go for it. You know what that recipe tastes like, so it frees you to experiment with hops and/or yeast.

I'm not dead-set against it, but I've yet to taste a beer which convinces me to try the tedious cold-steeping thing. I like the dark color and I like the roasty taste, even in brown or black IPAs, so sue me.

[far9410]

Hi Seymour, thanks for the input, I'm not looking for a stout, if I were it would be an oaty one like yours, need to try a dark IPA, thought maybe steep some dark grains to achieve this?

[seymour]

Hi Seymour, thanks for the input, I'm not looking for a stout, if I were it would be an oaty one like yours, need to try a dark IPA, thought maybe steep some dark grains to achieve this?

Gotcha. I'm sure it'll be fine. I still prefer my dark IPAs with some roastiness, but I'll try to drop it. My point, which I didn't state very clearly, was to brew that grainbill which we'd typically consider a stout, then hop the hell out of it like an IPA. Presto, a delicious dark IPA! That is, if we all agree to forget the P stands for Pale.

Meanwhile, on a related note, have you ever read about the 1855 India Porter (as opposed to the familiar India Pale Ale) which Ron Pattinson resurrected? He provided the recipe to American craft brewery Pretty Things, but I'll send him a private message to see if he has thoughts for us here. Though it appears to contain Brown Malt, not Roasted Barley, so that doesn't help you this time...

http://www.oldbeers.com/1855eip/
http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2012/05 ... red-beers/
http://www.prettythingsbeertoday.com/wp ... pattinson/

[far9410]

he he , we live to fight again!

[seymour]

From http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_htm ... index.html

It's certainly worth a try, with so much unclaimed Roasted Barley sitting around...

Question to Dr. George Fix:

>On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

(i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
(ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
(iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.

[patto1ro]

Meanwhile, on a related note, have you ever read about the 1855 India Porter (as opposed to the familiar India Pale Ale) which Ron Pattinson resurrected? He provided the recipe to American craft brewery Pretty Things, but I'll send him a private message to see if he has thoughts for us here. Though it appears to contain Brown Malt, not Roasted Barley, so that doesn't help you this time.../

This is the recipe for a slightly later version of the beer Pretty Things brewed:

1867 Barclay Perkins East India Porter

Pale malt 8.50 lb 64.15%
Brown malt 2.00 lb 15.09%
Crystal malt 60L 2.25 lb 16.98%
Black malt 0.50 lb 3.77%
Goldings 90 min 2.50 oz
Goldings 60 min 2.00 oz
OG 1055
FG 1016
ABV 5.16
Apparent attenuation 70.91%
IBU 68
SRM 30
Mash at 152º F
Sparge at 168º F
Boil time 90 minutes
pitching temp 65º F

[seymour]

HOT DAMN!!! THANK YOU FOR SHARING, RON!

Everyone pay attention, this is a big deal: a cool part of your beer history, and I'd go so far as to say national identity, which was almost lost.

[far9410]

From http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_htm ... index.html

It's certainly worth a try, with so much unclaimed Roasted Barley sitting around...

Question to Dr. George Fix:

>On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

(i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
(ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
(iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.

Thats good stuff Seymour, thanks